Scientific Evidence of God?

I don't really agree with that part, but I get your point.

 

To me, God's goodness is more important than His knowledge or omnipotence. I agree with theologian Charles Hartshorne that both omniscience and omnipotence are "theological mistakes", and with John Dewey that God is the sum of all human idealism. Whether or not there is an objective reality behind that concept is debatable, and to me not particularly important--although I think there is some evidence supporting a reasonable belief in a Creator/Designer entity.

 

God exists by definition.
I'm not looking at god as a deity but as a fundamental part of the human psyche. We are devoted to our good and there is nothing we do not do for the sake of our good. If you think that good is cheeseburgers then cheeseburgers, that which you invoke as good, is your god. We are hard wired to find god.

I also say that we can offer or perceive no evidence of god apart from our own being.

 

No the idea of a god exists by definition.

Again, the idea of a god, nothing more. here you yourself admit it.

No we are devoted for ourselves, nothing we do is not for ourselves, even those acts that at first may seem as selfless in actuality are selfish as we choose to do them.

In this statement you yourself admit to the only evidence to the individual of god is just their own idea of said god. Again not evidence of fact.

 

Everything is an idea if you are talking about cognition.

I say god is a fundamental part of the human psyche, this is it's phenomenal nature in relation to ourselves. Are you, "nothing more", than an idea of yourself?

I understand that. You are not devoted to starvation. The instinct for self preservation is endemic morality but you must reach for something in order to sustain yourself. You must secure food, shelter, etc.. You are hard wired to pursue your good by virtue of the very thing you point out.

I offer no evidence that can be perceived apart form our own being. This aspect that I am referring to, we all share, no individual is without it. The term god is meaningless apart form experiential conjugation. Knowledge is being shared. Natural science is a study of the nature we all share.

 

“The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired.” - Stephen W. Hawking

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"If man thinks of the totality as constituted of independent fragments, then that is how his mind will tend to operate, but if he can include everything coherently and harmoniously in an overall whole that is undivided, unbroken, and without a border then his mind will tend to move in a similar way, and from this will flow an orderly action within the whole."


David Bohm, _Wholeness and the Implicate Order

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“Quantum physics thus reveals a basic oneness of the universe.” - Erwin Schrodinger



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"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."


"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." – Albert Einstein

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“Another source of conviction in the existence of God ... follows from the ... impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity for looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity.” - Charles Darwin

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“Mind and intelligence are woven into the fabric of our universe in a way that altogether surpasses our understanding.”


Freeman Dyson - theoretical physicist

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“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force… We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.”


Max Planck, Nobel Prize-winning Father of Quantum Theory

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"Today there is a wide measure of agreement that the stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine. Mind no longer appears as an accidental intruder into the realm of matter; we are beginning to suspect that we ought rather to hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter."


Sir James Jeans - physicist, astronomer and mathematician.

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“Perhaps there is more sense in our nonsense and more nonsense in our 'sense' than we would care to believe.” - David Bohm

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And let's not forget Newton..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a59...jYvXdGq2cnOTMwiXw&index=33&feature=plpp_video


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I am is the surname we all inherit in creation.
God is the magnanimous intent we all share.

 

“What is this "I"?

You will, on close introspection, find that what you really mean by "I" is the ground-stuff upon which all experiences are collected.”

Erwin Schroedinger

 

I am is a name. Intent, gravity is the thing around which all the phenomena of our lives coalesce.

Oh yeah: thedope

 

Meagain, first my apologize for the rash comment. I had something else in my head, and I do get very defensive when people say that reason and religion can not mix. Thank you for pointing our that was not your point.

As far as my experience over the last 20 years it has been a deep study into religion and science, as well as logic and reason. I turned away from my christian upbringing as a junior in high school, and really could have cared less whether god existed. This is where I discovered that science does not have as definitive answers as it claims to (or at least some scientists claim too).

In college I had many friends, like I have said, many of them have different faiths including science. I spent a long time studying meditation under Buddhism and Shinto (a long story and very personal as to why my mind was so crazed) and in them studied lots of Asian and even native American beliefs and religions.

I have studied Greek and roman religion and philosophy, I have read parts of the hindu texts, and most if not all of confucious and lao tsu (although asian philosophy writing is thought of very differently than we think of it here in the west). For the sake of time lets just say I spent many hours and hours talking and thinking and studying every religion you can think of from every era of human history, and I include in this the empirical evidence of science.

It was only than that I returned back to Christianity and viewed it in a very different light... and found some very interesting disparities that set it apart from other religions. And it was through many other personal experiences that I can only call encounters with God. I now argue extensively with my parents (my dad at least) as to who God is and what he wants, and expects from us, and see the blindness in the faith of many Christians. but I also the blindness in faith of people in science and other religions.

Does this make me better than anyone... please believe that I do not think that. I am still just a man, and no better than anyone, but I can tell you that nothing anyone here or elsewhere can shake the things I have seen or the reasons I have for knowing that god is there.

And as far as thedopes comments... God is a real being, and not something that is only there because our minds and devotions put him or them there. the idea is just (forgive me for this) dopey.

And the conclusion for the sake of the post... it is not through science that I can prove God to you. And to tell the details of everything I have seen and experienced would take a book. Reason can be a powerful tool to understand God, and so can faith, I choose both, and see science as simply understanding how God set the rules of this world to work.

I know that long but that's the overview of my story... if you want to know anything specific feel free to pm me.

 

Just a few notes: a lot of these point to the possibility of a being we do not see and understand, but I agree, they are not specifically saying the judeo/christian God.

As far as Darwin, he died as a Christian, the other I need to go back and look up.

I do believe science and the Bible can line up, again not prove God, but there are a few things to consider:

The Bible talks about dinosaurs and man living at the same time, which we are now finding in fossil records (actually we found a long time ago). The old testament also talks in several places about stars being aligned in certain patterns for certain events, and through the same things that get us farmers almanacs and star charts now, we can see that these alignments did happen when they were suppose to (no as far as the prohecy of the alignments, you would need to believe in the validity of the Bible which is another story).

The Bible also talks about the stars and earth being suspended in nothing, when most people either had no knowledge of such things or thought the earth was flat.... guess they should have listened to the greeks

These are just a few... proof... no I would not say Interesting pieces that need to be thought about... yes.

 

We make an image for god. In the case of judeo christian god, the image reflects the ego centric character of the culture that embraced it.

 

While I agree in principal with this, it does not change the fact that if you really read the Bible, it shows a very different God than the majority of people who say they believe in him. He exists far apart from just our image of him.

Such relativistic though is very dangerous.

 

Yes, but the judeo-christian god that meagain refers to, is not the transcendent god that you detect.

 

something tells me this needs it's own thread.

 

I will participate if you start, but our discussion could be considered evidential.

 

I'm not even sure what your point or stance is, so it would be difficult for me to start.

The best I can say is this: what many people think they understand about God they don't, it's just rhetoric from some preacher. That being said, I still think the bible does tell you who God really is.

As far as transcendence, God exists and can exist apart from man and the universe and he did for a period until he created it all... now he chooses not to live apart from the world, and if you truly want to know who he is as a being, you can.

 

His being, is one of creator, not personality as creation legitimately emerges diversely.