Sharia Law

The dichotomy between genuine, helpful, intelligent,caring,thoughtful,inquiring,progressive humans (and they exist) and murderous , homicidal, religiously brainwashed

humans (and they exist), is becoming ever more obvious and is not much different than many other dictatorial regimes/movements throughout the sorry history of humanity.

A problem ignored is not a problem solved.

 

If you say so. If that is supposed to be what you are getting from my criticism on you: you are twisting my words.

Obviously. But who is ignoring it? Do you mean a specific group or anyone in particular when you say that?

 

That's really pathetic strawmanning dude. Social Justice Warriors loooove to do this. It's a super sad tactic.

We're trying to play chess and stay within the bounds of logic here, and you're that little kid cheating, thinking they're winning because they don't follow the rules.

 

[SIZE=11pt]scratcho[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The theme of this thread from the beginning has been that a Muslim is just an extremist Muslim waiting to happen and that all Muslims want to impose Sharia law on everyone - and I haven’t really heard you opposing that view you even seemed to support it and then went on to say they should be eliminated and killed like rabid dogs. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt][edit][/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]OK - Just seen this, must have missed it[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]

Thing is that my point throughout this thread has been that scaremongering, fearmongering and hatemongering aimed at all Muslims is in my view not a good way of tackling Islamic extremism.

You haven’t commented on that and maybe you don’t agree, I mean you seem to think my stance means I support the Islamic extremists - ipso facto you seem to think that not hating all Muslims mean you must support homicidal Muslims.

As to the pictures and videos and some comments posted in this thread you do know that these are often widely disseminated by far right fascistic groups and individuals not to initiate a reasonable debate of the subject but to try and promote fear and hatred of Muslim in general.

 

Nobody here seems to have much in the way of solutions. Change the education system , hope the Muslim countries become secular -

Maybe I am pessimistic, but I just can't see it happening. It took the west hundreds of years to move from a religiously dominated culture to 'liberal' democracy. I just think it's unlikely the Muslims will be able to fast track such a process.

Also, western governments actively support regimes like the Sauds, who are only there because of Wahibi in the first place, and are known sponsors of extremist terror. It's not that the west puts any pressure on them to reform.

 

Good post to avoid talking across purposes.

Balbus you oppose extremist Muslims but not moderate Muslims.

What we need is your definition of an extremist. When do they cross that line into extremism? If they are bent on following Sharia Law instead of English Law is that extremist?

 

scratco

I agree with Asmo, who’s ignoring Islamic extremism.

I’m just pointing out how we got to this (so we don’t make the same mistakes, like hating all left wingers because they were seen as all evil communists) and that getting people to hate all Muslim because they were seen as all evil jihadists was probably counterproductive.

I’ve explained my thinking on tackling this what is yours besides saying you want ‘them’ eliminated?

 

Blake

Oh please don’t be so pessimistic I mean as pointed out it did happened in the past and continues today

I mean the big example is Turkey, secularise by Atatuk, its had its ups and downs and recently was drifting to more Islamic thinking up the gains of the secular and left wing HDP in the last elections are encouraging.

*

Oh and you might be interested in this -

[SIZE=11pt]Why the revolutionary Kurdish fight against Isis deserves our support [/SIZE]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/10/revolutionary-kurdish-isis-ivana-hoffman

 

I don't know who filmed those RADICAL--REPEAT-- RADICAL-muslims, but I can see the videos of them calling for the usual insane results of having to "PUT UP WITH THE HABITS OF OTHERS. Hell, I see muslims ALL the time around here. What do you think I do--harass them? I'm a LIVE and LET LIVE KINDA' GUY. I'm not religious, never have been. But Murdering people for not having the same mind set concerning gods or anything else doesn't seem to be much of a a defensible position to me.

I don't care if people want to believe in a god or a prophet----most of it seems rather silly to me, however MURDERING others for something that not only cannot be proved, but has a history of the same behavior needs addressed. Christians don't seem to be repeating their historical murderous ways of old, but if they were, I'd feel the same about their RADICALS. ( including our murderous government ways about which I have complained about for years.)

I just can't say it any more plainly.

 

We all agree violence is the worst aspect of all this. We would all categorize that as extremist.

The more interesting issue, to my mind, is that within Islam, there is no separation of Mosque and State. That's just not a thing. So to expect increasing numbers of Muslims to not affect the state within a democracy is delusional. It is totally against their doctrine.

I have no beef with any Muslim that wants a secular government. Any Muslim that values maximizing freedom, is a friend of mine.

 

When they move here, they need to respect the separation of church and state. Time will tell I suppose, regarding ridding themselves of the Mosque-state mind set and their
--shall we say, unusual ways of forcing their "religious beliefs" on others.
I just can't see marches like that here at all. They have a constitutional right to have those marches and declarations and I for one would defend them in doing so. of course, as I have said---I will not take orders OF ANY KIND from any religious movement.

 

By the way, Balbus----you have had excellent takes on the government of the USA over the years and I have agreed with damn near all of them. Just so you know. And I hope you understand from where I am coming on this murderous radical business. If you don't--so it goes.

 

As has been pointed out in this thread numerous times, it is the teachings of Islam that is the core problem.
Muslims cover every racial strata, so Balbus trying to make it about racial hatred is lame. To a lot of people that is the extent of it, but it goes much deeper than that.
Muslims are found in every country on every continent, same as Christians, Jews, Buddhists. etc.
The thing that unites all these disparet peoples together is their religions beliefs and convictions.
Because that is the ONLY global unifying factor for Muslims it needs to be considered.
When you have a religion that teaches, condones, encourages and admonishes violence and death to people of differing religions/beliefs and further promises eternal rewards for such behavior, then the teachings themselves constitute the danger.

Balbus, you can try all you want as much as you want to try and make this into a solely political issue and lay blame at the feet of America once again, but you are mistaken, or only see part of the issue.

For the idiots in power, it is mostly a political ploy, but to the rank and file Muslim who sincerely believes the teachings of the Quran, it is a completely different scenario.
that seems to be something you don't get.



oh fuck, who am I kidding,
Balbus you know full well and understand all this bullshit, NOBODY could be that stupid,
you're just up to your usual trollish antics.

 

Ouch! Good points though. Hopefully the majority of muslims can ignore the killing for muhammed stuff like the christians ignore the bad stuff in their book. It's always prudent though, to keep your powder dry.

 

Maybe it's not politically correct to say this, but to me, Islam seems like the very worst of the world's major religions by a long way. At least in terms of harm - mainly to Muslims themselves. And the potential to cause trouble.

Part of the reason they don't just skip over the nasty bits in the Koran is that there aren't that many good bits.

 

yes and no.
Christians can ignore it because it doesn't pertain to them or their beliefs, according to the source material, not because it's being swept under the carpet.
As Sam Harris pointed out in the video earlier, Old testament/Judaism teaches that violent crap, but Christianity doesn't at all and it never has.
sure, some idiots have perverted it to their own ends, but when you consider what is actually written on the pages of the NT, it doesn't condone or encourage violence at all.

 

prayer time in 20minutes go wash your feet its time to eat..

 

Source? It appears to me that they are actually trying to implement the wishes of Muhammad in spreading Islam across the entire globe. They say that, too, if that means anything to you.

I don't think anybody has done this in this thread. I am certainly not painting all muslims with the same brushstroke; but you might also want to check yourself with regards to exactly what proportion of "normal muslims" want sharia law implemented.

So what you're telling me is that we shouldn't speak out against Islam? It's ok to do it with Christianity, or Jainism, or Buddhism, but to speak out against islam, is to be part of the problem?

Can you please step back for a second and ask yourself how we got to this point? Why it's not ok to speak out against Islam?

The answer that should come to your mind immediately is "Because if we do, then real people will seek to behead us for this".

As Bill Maher said, Islam is the only religion that acts like the fucking mafia . . . "If you talk shit about us, we will fucking kill you".

Does this seem ok to you? Normal? Something we should just accept and move on?

What does it say about Islam as an ideology? What responsibilities does the existence of this kind of ideology prompt in those who would protect freedom and peace?

The opinions expressed in this thread are not extremist. Notice how many forum regulars are feeling this way. You think we're all "extremist"?

Do you think maybe it's a bit callous and unseemly to suggest that people who openly criticize the beheading of apostates and non-believers and the stoning to death of women, are on par morally with those that are doing the beheading and the stoning?

Do you think maybe you're that one guy who's telling Winston Churchill to "tone it down, you sound like a bit of a jerk" while he's trying to speak against Nazi Germany?

I think you need to really just take a minute and step back and ask yourself what exactly you are defending, and from whom. I think you've got this situation about 100% backwards.

 

The example of Jesus, and the example of Muhammad are absolutely stark in contrast.

 

yeah, your right, the whole mess in that half of the world probably started with the wholesale rape and pillaging of the Indian subcontinent.


who was it that did that again?