Should Guns be Banned in the US?

Scratcho

“As I’ve said the mentality I’ve talked about can lead to a near paranoid outlook were everything and everyone is seen as a potential threat that is just waiting to attack or repress them. This taints the way such people see government, how criminality can be dealt with, how they see their fellow citizens, differing social classes, differing ethnic groups, and even differing political philosophies or ideas.

Within the framework of such a worldview guns seem attractive as a means of ‘equalising’ the individual against what they perceive as threats, it makes them feel that they are also ‘powerful’ and intimidating and that they too, if needs be, can deal with, in other words suppress the threatening.

The problem is that such attitudes can build up an irrational barrier between reality and myth, between what they see as prudent and sensible and what actually is prudent and sensible”

(please read posts 304-305)

 

Balbus. What I pointed out is not myth. Look around the world at what is taking place now. Humans are a destructive lot locally ,nationally and internationally. I have personal protection because I will not let those that have no respect for life take mine or those I love and care for ,just because they feel they might think they have to right to do so for whatever reason. Yes,it's a sad situation,but the only way I see we humans will rid ourselves of weapons of any and all kinds, would be the massive overhaul of the education systems worldwide to inculcate the succeeding generations of youth about sharing,empathy,and the concern for all living creatures including ourselves. Do you see this manifested? Who will get this done?Who is interested in getting this done? Surely not the ones with enough power to do so.The industrial revolution took a wrong turn and instead of setting up or attempting to set up societies to benefit all humans --the fatal flaw in human nature --greed--has precluded a 'well run earth' where ALL benefit from the potentialities of science,agriculture and education. Until this happens (and it looks pretty unlikely) we will continue the ridiculous,dangerous chase for riches and there will be "winners and losers". And obviously ,many feel that they can do whatever is necessary to obtain the riches of others by force. Is it fair? No--it's human. Guns are symptoms, not the disease.

 

wow i was hoping you had actually added something new to your "theories" balbus.... Hope you and Yours are doing well after all these years..

 

So is murder.

 

Right on. When I think of someone doing harm to my grand children--I check my ammo. I'd be willing to give mine up if it was world-wide--but that's ridiculous. Humans are involved.

 

scratcho

Oh dear – don’t you see that these statement exactly back up what I’ve been saying (I do wish people would actually read my posts rather than just reacting to them in a knee jerk fashion).

 

Hi Pitt

I have added to my theories but the general premise hasn’t changed that much because so far it still seems to stand, for example the statements by scratcho above.

 

Someone, somewhere, has the exact same thoughts not with "they" but with yourself in mind. After all, you also "feel (you) might think (you) have a right to do so for whatever reason." And they may also feel you have no respect for life, just as you feel about them.

 

I think a lot of people see what your saying balbus but do not necessarily agree with your premise. You see the proliferation of murder and violent crime as a symptom of deeper socio economic problems, and most people will agree with that. but this is where the differing thoughts begin to emerge.
You see the solution as people need to quit relying on guns for protection and concentrate on the underlying problem. (yes i know very basic synopsis)
Where others see guns as protection form these symptoms WHILE working on the underlying problems.

 

Walsh-- I won't be breaking into anyones houses and taking away their possesions or their lives. But some will and do. Yes, guns ,robbery and murder are symptoms of sick societies and it would be fine with me if humanity would come to their senses and determine that war and killing for gadgets is not the best way for us and get rid of weapons altogether. It's a lot more complicated than that and not likely to happen. I don't go around waving a gun at people and don't intend to,but unless and until scumbags who have no respect for others are ALL put away---I will protect my loved ones as best I can.

 

Just because something is "banned" or "illegal" certainly does not mean it isn't/wouldn't be readily available to those who seek it out!!!! In fact, I'll go as far as saying that, the demand would be greater: for both the criminal element and those who want one for protection from them.

Regardless of what side of this issue you're on, it would be completely naive to think that just because the Feds pass a total ban, that will stop a criminal from stuffing a .45 in your nose and doing his/her deed!

 

Despite your wanton use of exclamation points, I think you may be right here. From what I understand most gun crime is committed with illegal firearms anyway in the US.

 

Pitt

So put up an alternative, saying I don’t agree isn’t a rational or reasonable counter argument. So far most of the pro-gunners post actually back up my theory, yours certainly did.

I’m not sure if that is correct, otherwise they would have a different mentality and attitude to the ones I’ve highlighted.

For fuck sake how many times do I have to repeat - - I’m not against, the law abiding and responsible, owning a gun –

As I said only some 10 post ago - What do I have to do to get people to read it, write it in forty foot flaming letters on Mount Rushmore?

As I also keep saying it is the mentality and attitudes that are the problem it seems to lead them to the belief that a gun is the best way of tackling socio-economic or political problems.

But as pointed out a hundred (or is it a thousand) times – the mentality and attitude they seem to have seem to get in the way of them tackling the underlying causes.

Pitt you don’t seem to be bringing anything new to the table since we first started talking some 5 years ago you’re just repeating the same stuff that I’ve already addressed a hundred or more times before, if you have no new answers just let it go man, let it go.

 

War?

What are the causes of crime?

Again - don’t you see that these statements exactly back up what I’ve been saying ?

 

So what exactly would you have me do?

 

OH HELL – would people please read the thread?

Here is a reply I gave to Mad who put forward a similar argument (this thread Post 255)

So that is it - nothing can be done, hell it shouldn’t even be attempted, I mean there is just no point in even trying to get guns out of the hands of criminals – so since there isn’t an alternative the only way to protect yourself from that pistol totting crack addicted gangbanger that at any moment could break through your door and rape your wife and child before putting a bullet in your head is to get yourself a gun, no get two or maybe three…..

Do you see what I mean about some people seeming to see guns as the answer and ignoring the possibility of alternatives?

 

Well a start might be to read posts 304-305 like I asked you before – did you?

 

balbus
I did put up alternative theories which YOU conveniently deleted (hundreds of post) I did not come here to rehash everything with you. We (you and I) have differing opinions and that is all. You have not convinced me and I have not convinced you.

You feel its incorrect and I feel that it is. A difference of opinion. A simple way to find out is ask the simple question in general.. "Do you feel the proliferation of murder and violent crime is a symptom of deeper socio-economic problems?"

I never said you were against "the law abiding and responsible, owning a gun" repeatedly shouting that at me is useless.

you pin people down saying they believe "gun is the best way of tackling socio-economic or political problems" yet very few people actually say or believe that.

Its simply you take what people say one way and I another... I see it as people protecting themselves from the symptoms.. you dont... Like when I go on first responder calls to help sick or injured, I wear gloves and mask to protect myself WHILE helping the victims.

I read through the 40+ pages of this thread yesterday and again i see nothing new in your view either balbus.

and yes .. I will "just let it go man, let it go" where you are concerned as I have no wish to have hundreds upon hundreds of post deleted again nor do I wish another ban where you are the only one wishing it.

Keep pressing on balbus.. we may have deep differing opinions on this however i do respect your opinion and your right to have and voice them

 

No--not for months. This has been going on forever,it seems. I'm asking you--would you have me get rid of the protection that I have for my family? How would that affect a world full of guns if I got rid of mine? How would that help me and my family protect ourselves from the people that you seem to think don't exist? You can consider me a typical gun totin' red neck if you wish--doesn't change the fact that here in america--people break into houses and kill law abiding citizens. I ,my kids and grand kids are law abiding citizens and we enjoy being alive,thus we will not let someone end our enjoyment. Yes, I have read this thread completely over the months and if you could sum up in a sentence or two what your point is ,I'd be glad to read it.

 

Dirk--nice post. Balbus--you certainly have not read many ,if any of my posts as to what this society and in fact the entirety of societies could and should be. So you really don't know my basic political stances. No matter. Regarding weapons--I'm not paranoid--just prepared.