Should the U.S. put a lien on BP's quarterly dividends?

Also remember, this could've happened to any company. There are near 4,000 operating oil wells in the Gulf of Mexico, BP just had the bad luck of theirs exploding combined with the fact the vast majority of wells are in shallow continental shelf waters, but this rig was drilling where the ocean floor is over a mile down.

 

Our societies insatiable appetite for oil is driving riskier exploration and probably lax oversight.

 

How does Canada do a better job of controlling offshore drilling? Does the Canadian government have experts and equipment for cleaning up a disastrous oil spill of this magnitude in the oceans? Does your Navy have superior oil skimmers or something better? Please enlighten me as to exactly how Canada is so superior to the U.S.

If you were good neighbors you would lend us your superior government experts and clean up equipment.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con_percap-energy-oil-consumption-per-capita

Seems you guys use more oil than we do per person, so, get off your high horse. You have no high ground here.

Are you a BP employee? Do you own BP stock? Why are yo so antithetical to making sure BP carries forth their responsibilities and commitments to their victims?

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Canada does use more oil, but they also export most of their domestic production(7th largest in the world), almost all to the United States.

As for offshore drilling, most Canadian oil comes out of either land wells or the oil sands. Offshore drilling that does happen generally takes place around Newfoundland on the continental shelf, which means any accident could easily be taken care of. But same with here, 4,000 rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, had about 1 out of 3,600 of those rigs that are on continental shelf blown its top, there'd be no problem, the saddest thing would've been the 11 who died on the rig. A rig doing this where the sea bed is a mile deep though has never happened before. Seriously BP is the world leader in drilling, we should be happy this happened to BP and not someone else.

 

I'm jumping with joy! arty:

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No but really, what if it had happened to some bumfuck company that didn't have the machinery and technicians available BP does.

 

Really? What have their machinery and technicians done? Oil is still spewing out, shores are coated with oil and wildlife is dying, and it seems the chemical dispersants have done more harm that good. I doubt that a "bumfuck company" would have the resources to dig such a well anyway.

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This is true, but BP is only digging that well because of mainly American demand for that oil and being leased the land from the federal government of the United States. Oil is spewing out but when it comes down to it, what can be done, this has never happened before, trying to stop this leak is basically doing experiments until something works.

 

This is not a comfortable truth to ponder.

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I don't think it is necessarily wise to financially cripple a company that seems to be taking ownership of the clean up. Once the situation is resolved then BP should be held liable to not only restoring the gulf to as close to its original state as is possible- including cleaning up all coastal areas damaged but also to repairing the livelihoods and local economies that have been and will be devastated by this spill.

They may not be able to get the fisherman back to his trade in the next few years but they can foot the bill for his retraining/tuition in another field of his choosing. Oh, and a reasonable spending allowance should also be in place during the re-educational period because not only do Mom and Pop want to continue running their store and corner casino but the tax rolls need to be filled so other things can be kept up in the meantime... like roads, bridges, prisons, brothels, police and fire departments, skewls, and the like.

Upon repairing the damage the best they can, BP should invest in the areas hit by it.

 

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That essentially sums it up. BP as of now has agreed to clean up the mess, but as of now they're actually still trying to actually stop the leak. The fact remains emotions run high, but BP did nothing illegal, they had a terrible accident where near a dozen people actually died, and now they're trying desperately to find a solution to a problem no one planned for. I mean look at why the federal government hasn't even stepped in, yes legally they can't take away the lot lease from BP, but that's not a concern, they could send men and machines out there to fix it to help BP and the whole Gulf coast out. Yet the fact remains, even the federal government of the United States, one of the most expansive things on Earth, loaded with more money, supplies, people and money than god, doesn't even have any kind of materials or solutions they can find for this leak.

I don't think this will turnout like the Exxon Valdez spill either, because that was 1989, this is 2010, the internet and the entire world is all over this day and night, with cameras literally on the spill at the ocean floor. If BP is ever to regain it's stock(and hence company) value, it needs to gain back the trust of the population with good faith measures.

 

It absolutely mind blowing that they can't stop this leak, I can't believe we can put a man on the moon but fail to stop a leaking pipe. Forget who owns the mess, let whoever has the equipment come in and stop it, for the sake of the fucking planet.

Fill a mile long pipe or hose with ocean water, sink it down and use some subs to clamp it to the pipe and drain the well into a tanker. It's not rocket science, they have subs that go twice that deep to the titanic. WTF!? Pay for the cleanup? The damage is priceless, no amount of money is going to fix or compensate for destroyed life and this gulf environment! JFC, it's outrageous!

 

Your post comes down to sheer defensiveness and is rhetorical.

I in no way said that we could handle it any better nor did I say that we are not as guilty in this country of not caring for the environment. In fact our record is no better as far as environmental protection than yours or any other.

I replied to your stance that none of this was in fact the American Governments fault or problem. It is, error were made. It happened, know what they are and ensure they can not happen again. If nothing is gained as far as knowledge or prevention in the future from this costly error then everyone loses.

BP whether you like it or not is probably the only company with enough resources to even attempt what is being done or cleaning it up.

I have been in no way antithetical, that is your projection on what I have said. I have maintained all along that they are responsible for cleaning it up. I stated that they were allowed by your government to drill without many safe guards that should of been in place. There is a difference.

I have not once said that they should not clean up this mess. I have said you do not try to cripple a companies coffers and expect the money to then be there and co-operation from them. An amicable solution is to work together. Which is being done.

This is a scenario that this company has also never had to deal with before either and like it or not, even with expertise it means that sometimes a theory works and sometimes it does not. They are the only ones at this point even close to a solution.

There have been excellent suggestions in this thread about what happens now and after the well is capped again and what can be done to clean up and rebuild. Those should be the focus, not shareholders dividends.

 

I'm sure the god damn cast of Mythbusters could have the leak fixed and aired a TV special about how they did it by now... this is fucking redonkulous!

 

If BP's broken laws then it should be prosecuted. From what I have heard in the media it may have. In any case we are all fueling the demand for the companies product.

 

I guess I'll have to work on my vernacular, I was going for insulting and snide.

Down here we have a couple of phrases: "the pot calling the kettle black," and "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

And why does that stance make me arrogant? I look at the facts as reported here and come to a different conclusion. The reports I have seen say that BP did have a permit. They were allowed to drill based on their own environmental study showing that a spill of this nature would have minimal impact on the environment. They also signed a statement claiming that they had the equipment, expertise and a plan to deal with this type of problem.

I say it is not the U.S. government's fault because it has no expertise in this area and has no choice but to rely on BP's statements and impact studies. If they lied, which obviously they did, they are holding the bag.

Please tell me how putting a lien on dividends to shareholders is taking money from BP's coffers. The money is being paid out anyway, and besides, a lien is only putting a hold on the money, not taking it. It can be released to the shareholders when BP has fulfilled it's obligations. Do people really buy stock for the dividends of .14 cents per share anyway?

Sorry, but if you look at the top of the page you will see that the name of this thread is, "Should the U.S. put a lien on BP's quarterly dividends." Anything else is incidental to the subject at hand. You might be interested in this thread, http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?p=6371857#post6371857, or start your own in the environment section, this is the politics section.


Your first reply to my post came off as insulting to me and to my country. If that was not your intent, I apologize and maybe we can begin again on a better note.

I started this topic because I'm interested in hearing opinions on holding the company owners responsible, and possibly getting assurances that BP will take this cleanup to it's conclusion. This is the second time in less than 2 years that corporations have brought America and the world to it's knees, and I, along with millions of other Americans, are fed up. We want blood, and accountability.

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Well, waddya know, seems the Federal Mineral Managment and BP been partyin' there asses off, pencil whippin' the hell out of inspections, reports, permits...plenty of hookers and cocaine too, I'm given to believe...not surprising really, seems it's the American way...Probably the same shit goin' on with the financial industry 'cept they aren't butt-pickin' redecks like the oil industry therefore have the brains to maintain a higher level of discretion. Still I'm guessing the "good 'ol boy" network model applies...

 

BP listed the man to call in their preliminary documents concerning this well if and when bad things happened with wildlife,one Mr Lutz. OOPS--he died 4 years before BP's plan to drill the "Deep Water Horizon. Just one of many,many mistakes. Examples=In the spill scenarios listed in the documents, fish,marine mammals and birds escape serious harm;water quality is only a temporary problem. Those were their projections for a leak 10 times worse than what has been calculated for the ongoing disaster. I can see both sides of the question here----Exxon stretched their liability for decades and the recent Bhopal decision stinks of payoff big time. I think a decision to get hard-ass on them depends on what the locals that are suffering have to say about the timeliness of BP's response to their needs and the needs of the environments affected.

 

No one guarranteed GM stock. I can testify to that.

 

I am not sure the US has any legal standing to put a lien on any of BP's holdings. As a foreign business, the only thing we can do is possibly rescind their lease on the site.

 

I do suppose it is fortunate I am not perceptive enough to decipher that from your posts.

This was in direct response to your question regarding why we could not help or do any better. I was in actuality agreeing with you.

You have interpreted the facts as you see them, and I have done the same. They did not have the required permits due to your government not issuing them. They proceeded at the approval of your government. Your own government stated that if there was a spill there would be major repercussions and they still allowed the drilling. It was suggested that a further environmental study be done and it was fast tracked and not done.

It was their job (gov't) to ensure then that further studies be done, which they did not and instead fast tracked the contracts. Since the only one with any expertise is BP in dealing with this, then perhaps their expertise is valued enough to have given them the contract in the first place.

I already stated that I don't agree that a lien should be put on any company who is still complying and working to rectify an issue. If nothing else it is bad business.

Well since you not only do not own the posts, the threads, the board or the only view, I quite honestly do not see an issue on this at all. The first three posts I made only dealt with the original topic. It only changed when you asked me why, in my opinion, the United States is also responsible. I sited why they share equal blame for the damage. The equipment caused the spill, the lack of following environmental protocol in the first place allowed it to also happen.

My first post was in direct answer to why I did not think that therr should be a lien. How you read it and personalize it I can not control. I was not rude to you, I stated what I believe. This is politics, as you stated and personal does not come into this. I in no way insulted you. It was not my intent. A discussion was. Perhaps you may wish to re-read your own responses to me, as I only answered what you asked.

If you are or were offended, that I do regret.

Which was exactly what I gave you in the first three posts that I made. I did not go further than that until you asked questions that no longer were that simple to answer, politics never is.

You do not like my answer or solutions or suggestions that is alright.

You may be as angry as you like about the situation and you may ask for accountability. The reality is then you must ask for accountability of all.

Blood is a poor substitute for resolution. It is not going to cap the well, employ people, clean the water ways and save the animals.