Should welfare recipients have to pass a drug test?

What you said was that you believe employers where you live can't refuse to hire drug addicts or drug users. both.

then you said:

Which is ridiculous, because hiring a drug addict is hiring someone who does drugs at work or goes to work on drugs. If the person is an addict, then they are not going to discriminate on the proper time and place to use drugs, they lost that capacity, that's what makes them an addict.

 

So which is? Can employers in your area refuse to hire drug addicts and drug users because they are drug addicts and drug users, or not?

 

The real issue is that some people think they should be able to totally control the behavior of other people. I don't believe anyone should have that expectation. Funding a government program that benefits the society as a whole does not constitute slavery. Every individual benefits from some program or other at some time in their life, either directly or through family members. No man is an island. A lesson you haven't learned yet.

 

When you're done preaching your brother-love religion, can you try to actually finish the discussion we started...

You ever think that you'd attract more people to your political point of view by appealing to their reason and common sense than by trying to use guilt? You know that saying about "a man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart and man over 30 who is a liberal has no head"? you're the reason for that saying.

 

I really don't see why you think that snarky put-downs are a greater contribution than anything I've said.

 

you haven't said anything at all, that's the funniest part. you've absolutely refused to discuss the topic in depth.

 

There can be no communication where there is not a will to communicate on both sides. Grandstanding does not demonstrate a desire to communicate.

 

dude all you've been doing is fucking grandstanding, i 've asked you specific questions on a specific topic and you fucking ramble about corporate greed instead of respond to what it is that i've actually stated. are you just fucking with me?

i got to stop wasting my time on these forums...

 

and i really got to stop feeding trolls like you and the other 2 idiots who can't present a single coherent position.

 

Well, nice way to prove you can argue in a mature manner. Realize that just because people can't see eye-to-eye with you, they aren't unequal to you.

My final point is that, unless a company or an organization can show that drug use on behalf of an employee will cause undue hardship, they shouldn't and (and I'm pretty sure) can't refuse to hire a person. Unlike you, I think that someone can be an addict if they get drunk every night, or need smack in order to sleep at night. I am sure that there are probably many addicts that could manage a 5 hour work shift without loading up.

Back on the issue of giving welfare to drug users. I don't believe that refusing welfare to drug users is going to solve any problems. Perhaps it will put more drug addicted homeless out into the community, if you can consider that a positive. That type of refusal is comparative to a doctor refusing care to an obese patient or a patient who smokes. Is it fair to neglect someone you have a duty to protect because of choices made? We don't neglect those in prisons but the people who fill them have made bad choices in their lives.

 

"Hey Joey, have you seen my pills, man?"

 

in a system where if you do not work you starve, there is no choice but to work

this is slavery

when you let people starve, they die

this is unhumane

 

while i do not agree at all with drug tests, most jobs require you to pass one and that is where the taxes come from so i think they should have to pass one to receive the benefits. Prehaps if they stops doing them, then they might not need to go on welfare to begin with.

 

You still didn't answer my questions. How do you live without using labour or without using the labor of others as a substitue for yours? Like i said roof doesn't build itself and food doesn't gather on it's own. So if you don't force others to work for you and you refuse to work yourself, where does the food and shelter come from? unless you are living off of someone else's charityoe stealing the product of their labor behind their back, in which case i don't see how you can be gauranteed (your word not mine) either food or shelter.

 

And when everyone decides not to work? Who will build and maintain the houses then, and who will grow and process the food?

No, but work is essential to the survival of all human beings

No, it doesn't. It also doesn't make you unable to work. I know lots of chemical ingesting workers.

No one should be drug tested, until our politicians submit to drug testing. Yes, there should be some better welfare reform. The kind that truly helps people get back on their feet. I don't think anyone should go hungry, but there comes a point when you cannot help those who will not even try to help themselves. Not that the welfare system in this country actually tries to help anyone.

 

It is the system that forces people to work meaningless jobs for jerks, pay taxes, take piss tests etc. so they may get a pay check and pay their rent, all so they may stay alive to go to work the next day for the jerks.

It is life that requires us to work for our food and shelter. I can't seem to come up with too many systems or situations that allow us to lay around and be fed, free to do what we want all the time. Unless, of course, you are on the dole relying on someone elses work to live.

Food, shelter and water require work to get, period.

As for the original question, no I do not think welfare recipients should have to be tested for drugs, nor do I think anyone else should be either. (You probably could convince me that, say, airline pilots should be tested.)

And we certainly shouldn't be tested while elected officials and our police and firefighters are not.

That one really gets me. The local grocery store requires that their baggers pass drug tests, but the police, fire fighters, EMTs, our children's teachers, borough employees and state employees do not.

 

A large percentage of people on welfare are children. They are unable to work- what can they do if they have a single mother who can't work b/c she is 1. addicted to drugs 2. physically unable to work 3. cannot find a job (or two) that supports her family 4. is unable to read for whatever reasons or 5. doesn't want to work. These are different possibilities why a someone would need welfare. The bottom line is that the children are the innocent victims of the flawed system. I don't blame the system for its flaws b/c no gov't agency is perfect and I don't think one ever will be. However, I think we should focus on the children in these situations. Would it be good to provide struggling parents w/ money to feed and clothe their children? Yes. But how will anyone know if the money is being used for their children or for feeding an addiction? The way the system is set up makes me believe this is the underlying reason why drug tests are being promoted. In an ideal system, a failed drug test would not disqualify someone from financial assistance. Instead, the person would be offered free quality treatment to deal w/ the addiction, allowed to chose someone close to the family such as a parent or family friend to take care of the children along w/ financial assistance, given job training and education, along w/ a place to stay while going through rehab. Sadly, none of this is possible when this country is spending billions of dollars within a week/days in the Middle East. Perhaps it's time to turn our attention to the citizens of this country who are in desperate need of help. Our country is only as great as it treats its suffering citizens.

Peace and love

 

However, someone could spend all their money on alcohol, or hard drugs that are out of your system quickly and all is just fine? Drug tests are unfair, they only catch a handful of drugs, and usually not the hard ones. There are already systems in place to deal with parents who are not taking care of the children.
We already have a serious lack of treatment options available in this country. It would be more likely that those failing drug tests would face loss of benifits, and possibly harder punishments.
I still say until the government employees, politicians included are willing to pass a drug test, no one should.
How much more intrusion into our private lives are we going to allow? How many more hoops are we going to force those who are down on their luck through?? It's really not that easy to get assistance, at least in my state. If you don't already have a low paying job, they will "find" you a job, not a paying job. They call it community service. Some of these jobs are with Wal-mart and other big corporations. All you get in return in your food stamps and other benifits. How the hell is someone supposed to find a real job when they are forced to work for practically nothing 40hrs a week? Now you want to add drug testing on top of that. I think I'd rather be homeless if I was in their place. I know single mom's who get as little as $90 a month in food stamps. If they have one child, and the boss offers them a raise so that theymake $9.05 and hour they loose their child care vouchers and food stamps, and the medical for the adult. These people are forced to stay poor.

 

No, I did not say that I support drug tests, all I said was that I understand why drug tests are being considered. I also said that if drug tests were required, a positive result would mean treatment, not jail or welfare denial. Lower income addicts have no plush rehab to go to when they hit rock bottom like Lindsay has; they need help and I believe we have a responsibility to provide them that. If drug tests are going to required for applicants, there is nothing I can do. I don't think it is right, but if it will be done, I want it to help those who need it. Please don't twist my words in an effort to make me look like I support drug tests.

Peace and love

 

Sorry, must have misunderstood your post. But that is it right there, the poor of this country don't have posh rehabs to go to. Most don't even have substandard prison-like rehabs to go to. Most just end up in prison. It is a sad thing.
Mostly I am just ranting about the horrible state of welfare in this country. It just seems as if it is set up to keep you down.