"Sissyphobia":

I guess my main question is: if gay culture and gay lifestyles are so rich and diverse, how come I only have to deviate slightly from the stereotypical homosexual for people to be surprised that I'm not straight?

 

I rest my case.

 

Yeah, you've totally, like, won the thread.

 

Keep believing your limited facts. It doesn't make any difference to me. It also doesn't make any difference to the world. I shared a different side of the gay world, but I'm not one to force it on anyone. You've mentioned about forefathers...... One day you will also be a gay forefather. Hopefully wiser than you are now. The gay world is what it is. You learn to live with it as time goes on. You present the gay world as if it is of black or white nature. It is so diverse that it's divided by skin color, sexual preference, hair or no hair, tatooed or not, income bracket, religious affiliation, leather or biker or bicycle or sports....... The list is long and the gay world is not united. Far away from it. Like people, it is also subtle. Like gay people today, there were gays in the closet and out gays in the past just like today. Several of my friends have been out since the early 50s. Quentin Crisp is the most famous out gay for god knows how long. The fact too is most gays aren't financially rich. There is a differnce between culturally rich and money rich. I see many gays who are struggling to survive in America today. Almost everyone is struggling to survive in America today. Talk to us again when you reach 47. I bet you that the tone of your writing will not be the same. I love my middle age years. I wish I could stay like this for the rest of my life, but I know that's not going to happen. Life also gets harder as you grow older. Your friends start to die on you. You also ache and hopefully you have friends to help you through the days. Your knowledge about things become obsolete. Your income also goes down. Most of your money goes to medications and medical bills. Your libido is not the same. Working out gets harder and harder. You also have to deal with aging constantly. You see yourself decay right in front of you. If everything goes well, it's going to happen to all of us. What's new? More secrets, less secrets, it all depends on the individual. I'm out to my parents, but not to the world. My boss knows, but that's it. So what's new?

 

Warning

Guys, there are some good points made here by several of you. Strongly held viewpoints are healthy as long as they are presented in a respectful manner. Things are getting too close to personal attacks though and that ain't gonna work. If it becomes an attack thing, I'll shut it down. If you feel you just gotta have a last word, start PMing each other with your thoughts. This warning is aimed at no one in particular. Lets keep it respectful.

I should add that I'm a bit amused when reading the predictions regarding the dire and tragic remnants of life old gay men have. I respectfully submit that one shouldn't speculate in the declining quality of life us old folks have. Till you're there, you just don't know. Steve

 

What's the point in being a "forefather" if you just accept that "the gay world is what it is". Would we be where we are now if our forefathers had just accepted that the gay world was what it was? I think very much not. What would you say to the idea that the gay world is what we accept?

On an aside: the phrase "it is what it is" annoys me, because it's essentially meaningless.

Actually, statistically we earn slightly more than straight men, and in terms of disposable income we're insanely better off than them. But carry on.

While this is true, this does not imply that everyone who is financially poor is culturally rich They ain't.

Interesting. So because I won't be the same in 20 years, I should assume that I'll be like you in 20 years, and change my tone now?

Not sure what I can add to that that isn't going to be construed as insulting, but as tactfully as possible: do you not think, given your assertion that I'll be different in 20 years, that you might just as likely look back on your life when you're in your 60s and find it as unpalatable as you in your 40s found me in my 20s?

 

What's the point in having the last word if no-one sees you do it?!

 

It could avoid the appearnace of an immature need to have the last word?

 

At the risk of seeming that immature, and of incurring the wrath of moderators and such, the whole point of a forum is to discuss things. At what point does it become "needing the last word" and stop being just wanting to further the debate? Pretty much when anyone says so is when! So it's totally arbitrary; if I'd said calisouth "needed to have the last word" a few posts back, I could've made him look like the bad guy, irrespective of what he'd actually said. I could say it to you and be just as wrong. In on-line discussion, there never is a last word, because the conversation goes on as long as there are people willing to contribute, or until a moderator deletes it. The "last word" thing just seems like a way to call it over without seeming like the bad guy by actually closing it down.

I don't think anyone was particularly getting personal beyond what is obviously inevitable. The thread's about attitudes to gay culture, and we've been discussing each other's attitudes to gay culture. It's not personal beyond that, far as I can see. I do feel that I'm being condescended to somewhat because of my age, but I'm pretty much resigned to that - y'all are always going to have "when you're older you'll think differently" to fall back on, even though it applies to everyone who isn't in the process of dying - and to be honest, I found it kind of amusing that the old'uns objected so much more strongly to the young'uns commenting on their age.

Also, if anyone responds to this with only a knowing "aah, see how he still wants the last word, aah", it will be kind of ironic.