Slowly Dying

Forgive me if I don't respond in depth, but my computer is and I really should go to sleep.

Your idea is just a little far fetched. How could we achieve such wisdom before birth? This automatically involves some kind of creator or something among those lines, and that kind of thinking just doesn't sit well with me and my desperate need for logic.

This idea can somewhat apply to you and me. I myself have always been more of a listener than a talker, and I believe that there is nothing better in this world than silence... but it simply cannot be applied to most people, if anyone at all. It actually kinda sounds like the premise of "Siddharta". It hard to categorize people as "artists", and I don't believe that we are smart enough as a being to be thought of in such positive terms.

 

I'm sorry, but you can't be elightened or take acid at all hours of the day for the rest of your life, so as far as i'm concerned, time is very real and we are slaves to it.

If you're going to use the idea that time is merely a concept to justify your viewpoint, then you might as well stop going to work on time, stop turning on your tv when your show is on time...because time no longer makes sense to you....

I know exactly what you're saying. You don't think so, but I do. I just think you're being very pragmatic with your arguments and the time idea was the last resort. You could pretty much use that idea to win any argument, because it discredits everything.

We are born at the beginning of the day, and we immediately begin to get closer and closer to death, we die. We grow, we get old, we get sick, we fuck up our bodies, so on and so forth, each of which is a part of death. As Aura said, life is a virus in a sense... but we also live. To live does not have to mean "not to die".

There it is. You guys think my sense of reality is far more underdeveloped than yours. I am completely aware of all of that. you didn't have to tell me that life is something slowly oozing away from us, its obvious, and like I said, I have meditated upon it and accepted it. At the same time, from the perspective of time, even if its a fading, or a very gradual transition between the two, there is certainly a difference between life and death.

I probably should finish up. Authentique, your arguments are very well set out and consistent, however I just simply think we have a different way of looking at things. Pavel, you are like arguing with the flying spaghetti monster.

 

Time does not exist, it is a human invention, a unit of measurement, just like math. Math isn't absolute. We are bound by time as humans in THIS SOCIETY, but we are not bound by it as beings.

Hell, I have absolutely no awareness of time or need for time when I'm in solitude with no responsibilities.

I'm not saying that you don't understand anything, and I'm not challenging your idea of reality, I'm simply explaining the idea.

I would like to go more in depth about time... but as I've said, it simply doesn't exist outside of our minds.

...and I really have to go to sleep soon.

 

I feel that, I truly do.

I feel very connected and reconciled with the idea that my body will age, things will gradually stop working and if I am not killed by external factors beforehand...I will slowly and gradually die.

Its all just words....I really don't see how your view is different from the common one except that you are just far more willing to meditate on this reality than the average person is, and relieve your suffering in that way.

I rarely, if ever feel any pain or anxiety over the fact that I am as you put it "dying" or that somehow I will die...because I have meditated on it as well. I just don't see the difference other than words.

 

You don't play your guitar in solitude? If the answer is that you do, when you do, do you play songs in reverse or mix up the chords or not play the song at all because since it has already been played in the future, past and present all at once, the song is playing anyway?

Again, pragmatism. Some beliefs apply at some times, then at others they don't. Its flying spaghetti monster crap. Its what smart people do unfortunately. You alter reality whenever you need to justify your own beliefs.

 

i'm not talking about wisdom as the product of knowledge, but the state of being infinite, just as all the concepts humans have discovered are infinite. i relate very much to plato's concept of "recollecting" knowledge rather than learning it. that is what i mean by wisdom - that we are "at one"

it does sound like siddhartha, which is why the book rang true to me when i read it, as the concept of the infinite and our interconnectedness with all that "is" has always interested me.

anyway, i can't tell how much you like silence, because when i see you, you're always talking, ha. but i know you have questions, and i know you're growing. some people do stop growing because they think they have all the answers. that is one thing i hate about religion. it convinces people that it's okay not to think.

i almost didn't say artists. i was thinking along the lines of people with inquisitive, philosophical minds. i don't know how to categorize it. oh well. macaroni time.

 

I'm not saying that the present doesn't exist, I'm saying that it has nothing to do with the concept of "time", which is just a way to measure the present. Our entire conception of time would be different if the earth revolved faster, per example.

There is no past, there is no future. There is only now.

It's not a pragmatic concept, it's a very solid one. I just don't think that you understand what I'm implying.

Anyhow, I'll get back to this in a good 16 hours or so.

This was a very good discussion, and it made me understand this idea better myself, through explaining it and talking about it.

Goodnight, moon.

 

haaaaaa!

time may not technically exist, but you gotta admit, it can still fuck up your shit.

it's also a pretty useful tool...

 

The difference is the use of the word will. You make it to be a future thing, to me is in the present. You accept that you will die, I accept that Im dying. You think that you will age, I think that Im aging.

It is something that happens slowly and gradually, but it's already happening.

It's like you're installing (or removing ) a program in your computer and you're watching the bar load. It's not a 100% yet, but it's happening, when it concludes the changes will take effect.

We're not dead, but we're dying.

Edit: I feel like Im repeating myself. I dont think there's much more I can say about it.

 

Goodnight, sun.

Not a pragmatic idea at all. A very realistic one, but a pragmatic argument. I do understand what you're implying, its just that what you're implying only is viable in a state of consciousness that transcends that of our normal, everyday one. It doesn't apply to my understanding RIGHT now, or that of all the other posters....however it does help boost the validity of your ideas. Of course we're dying and living at once if there is no time, however you also said we're born, we get old, body parts start failing. What? How can they, when did they happen? Oh yeah, all at once, or not at all...what?

 

goodnight man with the red balloon

 

There isn't. That makes perfect sense.

Also, I don't think that I will age either, I think that I am aging now. By the word "will", I am talking about something inevitably happening. For example "Boys will be boys". Again, its just words, we are so fused to them and life would be so much easier without them.

 

Words can be tricky

 

That was exhausting If this was real life I would want to share a beer with everyone right now and talk about something else...or we could have cookies for you.

 

That was entertaining!

Youlls can have your beer as long as there are cookies for me or any kind of vegetarian food really. Im always hungry.

 

You guys are real troopers. I don't have the stamina for that much debate! :cheers2:

 

i'll have a beer with you face. i have a couple of 2 belows left.

 

Its on. I needed that. :cheers2:

 

cheers chum :cheers2:

 

So after going through every page of this whole thing, I figured out everything.