Slowly Dying

Animals cannot have an advanced understanding of the universe or a very logical consciousness of the fact that they are going to die...depending on the Animal. A lot of mammals may possess such an understanding, but it will never be to the level that we understand it because they do not have culture, or a base of knowledge independent from that contained within their natural surroundings.

God is a far more elaborate delusion than time is. Time is a very simple, and quite possibly undeniable way to understand that moments constantly change. Unfortunately, time is such a substantial tool for our understanding of things, that without it, not a single word of this thread, this computer, this moment, my name, my hair...will make sense. I actually tried imagining the world without time last night. The room actually started to spin subconsciously and there appeared to be some sort of "fourth" dimension...or some consciousness of a direction that doesn't exist. I don't think I will ever be able to explain it logically though...its something that language simply cannot capture, although I agree that it is very real. I don't think time is irrelevant though. I think it is just as relevant as gravity...just as you can't expect to throw a ball into the air and expect it not to drop, we can't expect a moment not to change into another moment. Its like the law of physics, but rather is a law of time.

Time is what makes this argument viable...because without time, there would be no events. Nothing would occur...everything would meld into some indescribable and absurd jelly...or more so...it would just be a moment, or not a moment. See how I am struggling with my words to describe it? Its impossible work on a logical, language based level, without recognizing the laws of physics. Life and Death are both evaluations, or events, or processes....without time, they are the same thing, but then, so is every single other thing in existence. In that aspect, perhaps you have a point, but it is not a point worth arguing because the argument itself is driven on time. Every letter in this post came one after the other...according to yours and my own understanding of the present moment (or more accurately, moments)...however according to your abstract idea that time does not exist (which is a viable one) they were all written, or were never written at all...it is just not possible to explain what actually would have ocurred. I challenge you to do it yourself? You can't, you can only hint towards an unspoken phenomenon that exists outside of consciousness, and is therefore not relevant at all.

 

I think its bollocks

 

slowly dieing, yes other wise knon as the aging process

 

I am being argumentative for the sake of discussion.

Sure, we have a lot of questions to ask and answers to give, but where does that lead?

How is what you're saying scientific? I'm not trying to argue with you here, I'm merely trying to understand your point.

 

all i'm saying is that technically, everything that ever could exist already exists potentially. just as you are saying that everyone is a philosopher, i think everyone has the potential to discover anything.

the questions and answers lead to fulfilling that potential.

 

Not very long at all Pavel.
And at tremendously different rates between each civilization. But to put time and God as working side by side is to put a value on our species that is overblown and undeserved.
A cosmic groovy vibe is a very limiting way to put it, because it's not always what one can consider pleasureable, as the word groovy would imply.
In fact, I've found that the closer to God I get, the more frightened I become. Probably due to the friction between my soul (hate that word but bear with me) wanting truth and my mind wanting to watch my family grow before it's over. And in certain ways, you can not have it while you remain alive, in other ways, it is life itself.
Nature is intelligent, and I will never believe that evolution is carried out abiding by any law that is not passed down by an intelligent source.
But the word source tends to paint more pictures than reality can stand.

 

nature is the intelligent source, manifested physically.

personally, i want to live very much, Truth can wait. this may be the closest i'll ever get to it, anyway.

it annoys me how much i always relate to what you have to say

 

I am not talking about understanding, but merely an awareness of their animal nature. Humans are not even aware of the fact that they are animals. Our "culture", society, and base of knowledge only drive us further and further away from our most basic, primal nature.

I don't think that we are speaking of time on the same level. I think that what you're calling "time", I call mere existence. I think that you give time too much credit for things that have nothing to do with time. Time does not do anything, time is nothing, it is merely a way to categorize this existence that goes on around us.

A world without time would be exactly the same world, just a whole lot less understandable and more chaotic to us humans. Animals, on the other hand, wouldn't be affected at all.

Yet again, I simply think that our understanding of what "time" is is different. I'm not speaking of "time" as some cosmic power that has control over it all. I think that you're reading too much into the word itself which makes you miss what I'm saying. I am merely speaking of time as a tool for measurement of life.

Take the math analogy, per instance:

Numbers are merely there to explain things that are already happening independently of them.

The world would be exactly the same place without math, physics, geography, and so on. They are merely tools used to describe the world and understand it better.

Time is just the same concept as them, a tool used to measure all that occurs in life. It is not a law, or some great cosmic concept. We divided the day into 24 hours, because that's the most logical way to divide it, because it works.

As I've said before, if the day was 28 hours long, per example, then we'd have a completely different understanding of time. We would technically age slower, since it would take us longer to gain years...

But in reality, we would age at the exact same rate. Time merely measures this rate of dying, to stay true to the thread.

I think that I'm being pretty clear with what I mean here, and I do think that you're taking it out of context and viewing time as something much greater and more powerful than what I view it as.

As I've said before, let go of your conceptions as a human, think of think of life as an animal. Think of purity, forget everything you have ever learned.

(forgive the lack of paragraphs, my mouse is fucked up, together with my computer, and it keeps highlighting and deleting paragraphs that I write. It is very frustrating. I'm getting a new computer next week)

 

Well, I assume you and I are at similar states, or at least where during direct experiences, and have undergone the same tranformations
I also believe the source to be nature manifested, but I have had the (breif and overwhelming) experience of the transcendental behind what we call the void.
But I cant remember what it was like lol, other than like my mind was caving into itself with every thought possible at once.

 

That is pure relativism though. Everything that could exist potentially exists, just like it potentially doesn't exist. Hell, I can claim that nothing exists using that same logic, or claim that everything is nothing.

I do agree though, anyone has the potential to discover anything, yet I do not think that anyone at all would disagree with you on that.

 

our primal nature underlays everything we do, and the capacity to achieve more is much of why we are more.

 

yes... the eternal double helix, or vibration, the anomaly, whatever it is. the void. i have experienced it too. *sigh* DMT....

someday we need to do some story-telling, you know?

 

Of course, because primal nature is reality. That is the shame Pavel speaks of which comes with progress in our current direction, that we forget this is the strangest thing.
But the capacity to achieve more doesnt just happen, the brain doesnt just spontaneously grow in leaps and bounds during evolution because it got cold or it got hot. Im not talking about a divine intervention in the traditional sense, it's more like watching a flower blossom in slow motion, but we forget that the flower is connected to the ground, and that its life comes from the Sun.

 

The lack of paragraphs is fine. Your writing is excellent and easy to understand.

I write like this...and it is....kind of embarrassing.

About the above. Life and Death are ways to categorize events that only exist within human understanding...therefore according to the above argument, your original concept about "slowly" dying makes about as much sense as 4t35y53rtgreresvd34@$#R!#Esxdcd2wXSA12e!@E!#R#@F

Now if you are saying we have some "instinctual" awareness of "slowly dying" or a deep ingrained feeling which cannot be explained with words or concepts such as time, I am inclined to say you have an interesting idea, but it simply has no logical basis and cannot be proved to anyone other than yourself.

I apologize if that was a very concise and almost "silly" argument, but I don't feel I can say much more. I believe that you are too caught up in trying to introduce themes into language based arguments that simply don't belong there and which create paradoxes that you have so far been unsuccessful at explaining or "decoding" rationally, even to yourself.

 

Definitley! And I havent had the blessing of trying DMT, but I've had my many mushroom trips, and well, calling them Natures carriers of orally active DMT in slow motion would probably not be far from the truth

 

John, it took us millions of years to even form civilizations.

...and knowledge wasn't truly transfered on such a mass scale until we started writing.


I am not putting time and god side by side, I am merely making an analogy. People believe in time just like people believe in God. It's functional and practical. Time is a whole lot more logical though. It is not the best analogy, I was merely making it in order to clear up my idea.

As you probably already know, I don't believe in God, I do not believe in some sort of "source". Nature is wonderful, but nature is not intelligent. Nature is entropic and coincidental.

It only seems intelligent to use because it is hard for our mind to accept that something came up from nothing of significance, from randomness, from chance, or whatever you might want to call it.

Nature works in amazing ways, ways that baffle me, but it is still not enough evidence to suggest that it is intelligent, or an entity of its own.

One can claim that nature is everything. That it's not bound to this earth. That nature is the universe and all. That wouldn't be a bad claim, but it wouldn't be a justified one either. Nature is easy to connect to a concept of "God", no matter how abstract. I really like your ideas of God John, but at the same time, they aren't very grounded.

 

oh absolutely. i have felt very similar things on both substances. mushrooms will always be my favorite.

 

I used to write... like this alot... but then a teacher got on my back for it... and I stopped. I truly thank her.

But no, I disagree. I think that life and death transcend human understanding and go way beyond. Animals are just as aware of life and death as we are. You cannot possibly deny the fact that an animal knows what death is. This makes my argument make much more sense than the gibberish.

Time can easily be explained with words, I just did it. I just think that you're being a little lazy and not reading into what I'm saying.

The simple fact that other people in this thread are getting what I'm saying should be enough evidence.

 

Are we "more" as humans?

If so, then how so?

 

yes, because we create things that are outside of nature.