so much spiritual talk

I just dont see how some of you guys cant see that your money will be worthless someday. Like I said, it has no true foundation. The earth on the other hand...

 

When it comes down to it, you could say the same about the earth, about life, about anything.

Everything is both infinitly useless and infinitly important, it is simply perspective.

Some people derive enjoyment from working hard, saving up and buying an item that they have wanted for the longest time. I, for one, know that I am gonna really enjoy my stereo system when I eventually get one, one of the few objects I want and the amount of enjoyment I have derived from my car over the years is incomparable to many other things!

There is no right or wrong way. Money is tokens, to buy objects, to do things, and to explore places. The more money (to an extent), the more freedom (as the system currently works). Not ideal, but that is how it is, you work and you earn units of trade to get what you want

 

What do you need property for?

 

Yes most choose money but it is not necessary, even in modern times. However
it always takes creativity or work and it takes a lifetime of application to live a lifetime. As long as you cannot do without money it is beneficial to be proficient at getting it. If you want to choose an alternate path, it is best to spend you energies cultivating that path and leave the other behind. It creates a peculiar kind of difficulty turning towards desperation, not being able to invest whole heartedly to either cause, you must live with the evidence of your own hypocrisy. You can sense the dilemma in what is written in the op. It is best to do one or the other, but my point is, you can safely do the other. Regardless whether we choose money or sharing our lives here consist of sensations, one followed by another, some of which we call pleasant and some not so.

 

This whole thing is ridiculous. There has always been a need for a common medium of exchange ever since man expanded past a simple subsistence lifestyle. The larger a groups population becomes and the more specialized the labor force becomes, the more a common medium of exchange is needed.
Like it or not, there will always be some form of currency that will drive people to do the things that we attribute to the "evils of filthy lucre", whether it be shells, sheep or shillings, there will always be that "evil money" influence.

 

agreed.

to anyone saying how awful money and human civilization is, go live in a jungle and sleep in your own shit before you claim that.

 

I don't think the exploitation of those less fortunate can be defined as a regression in the sense that we as a species have never truly transcended that kind of behavior.
Our level of progress isn't reliant upon the exploitation of third world nations, however, that is a common, unfortunate side effect, because of individual's greed.

So that being said, is the way forward for 1st world nations to regress back to third world status, or third world nations to progress to 1 world status?

No. Most people realize that they won't last indefinitely and that they are an unclean energy source, which is why alternative fuels is such an exploding field currently in regards to intellectual popularity and grant money.
I believe that humanity follows the same rule that governs every other living thing in nature - evolve or die.
It's impossible for us to depend upon the Industrial Revolution model forever, because as you say, it would surely destroy both us and the planet, and that same model is slowly being outgrown. However I believe it absolute was a necessary step.
We'll either make another paradigmatic leap forward as we have in the past, or we'll stagnate and fizzle out.

 

true that!



prone, go eat a pigeon.

 

The only measure of ridicule so far present in this thread is in this statement.

No, we cannot help but participate in metabolic rates of exchange. We choose the way we live. There is a need for consensus to organize larger groups.

The larger population leads to specialization of the workforce dynamic is driven by agriculture and the domestication of animals leading to greater abundance of food. More food bigger populations. It is the centralization or concentration of assets that leads to imbalances which calls in turn for stable currencies.
No, the problem is not evil money, the problem, if there is one, is the idea of personal accumulation of wealth. The stockpiling of commodities. Our concentrations overwhelm the refreshing capacity, the ability of nature to recycle waste in any given area. Our assets become identical to liabilities.

I think while the European cultural norm is dominate in the world right now there is no reason to assume it will always be that way. There is much latitude regardless for bold and responsible individuals or smaller groups to experiment with alternative ways of addressing the economy of living.
What is practical begins as what we practice.

 

That kind of behavior is a popular reproductive strategy. I often use the example of fish spawning and note that only a small proportion of eggs laid survive to become breeding adults, the remainder becoming sustenance for other creatures.

It appears that 1st world nations are in decline. A rich diet is not necessarily a healthy one.

Whereas there may be more dedicated grant monies, is this translating into fundamental change?

That is a comfortable assumption considering that it is the step chosen.

Fortunately it does not take many individuals to demonstrate successful new paradigms. For instance the new paradigm, at the time, of trans Atlantic commerce with the new world being staked out by a few visionary mariners.

 

For somebody accustomed to living in a home, it's quite a change in pace to go completely out of the society they are used to. I know some people actually enjoy this though and come to it by a lot of careful assessment, like the guy who made bombs in his log cabin off somewhere remote in the woods; he wrote a lot of interesting things about self survival.

I'd like to believe the situation could be dealt with by simple acceptance though, or a change of mind, or even a more practical approach of looking at how much one makes in a month and how much one has to pay in a month and then finding out how to live in your means. As long as we're still talking about the OPs situation and not something completely different anyway .

 

for all my personal stuff and if one owned a buisness for all their buisness stuff.

Its actually an amazing comfort to be able to retire to a specified location with warmth, familiarity and privacy.

As far as business goes I suspect a business with a solid foundation and property works much more efficiently than something that is constantly mobile or only setup for short intervals of time. Having that solid foundation shows reliability and structure which just works for a large consumer population. It can also provide a sense of warmth and familiarity as well.

 

Ultimately we may of good fortune discern what makes for happy, and having done so, transcend appearances .

I think the subject is how does one balance the apparent dichotomy between spiritual practice and physical necessity. Up to a certain level we always seem to live to the extent of our means. That is, up to a certain level we tend to spend everything we make.

An initially more relevant determination to make than finding out how to live in your means, is what are your essential requirements. Have you assayed how many calories you need to sustain yourself per diem and in what proportions the nutrients should come, etc.. Are you familiar with your own tolerances. If not, you do not know what your true means are.

Know thyself. In knowing yourself you discover there is no dichotomy, no division between spiritual and physical. We are spirit reaching toward spirit in all things.

 

Durable goods is an illusion. There aren't any stable forms, they are all transient. No matter how comfortable you momentarily become, you will always experience discomfort still. As long as we require a specialized or specified location we are always vulnerable to dislocation. Enduring comfort comes from maintaining personal stability in any environment. Western material society is vulnerable in every sense yet the level of material comfort
produces a false sense of security as can be demonstrated by conflicts that continue to emerge causing damage to vital infrastructure, earthquakes, storms, wars, and termites.

At the same time, there is nothing wrong with getting what you can while you can which seems to satisfy to the extent that we are able to create temporary conditions for ourselves.

 

Yup. Too much [hypocritical] preaching in said thread.

 

Did you read the thread? Can you offer one example of hypocritical preaching?

 

On a deeper level of understanding perhaps you are right but on a surface level that's as transient as the flesh, its one of the greatest illusions/comforts a human can have short of a mother/father saying "Ill always be here for you." Having your own place and stuff is one of the biggest appeals to the western culture lifestyle and which is why people keep flocking to this lifestyle.

It sure as hell isn't for our spiritual depth LOL.

 

I know. I don't know if you've noticed but our system is not producing an overabundance of satisfaction.

 

How so? because were talkin shit about this system, and you think we havent lived without it? How do you know I have never spent a long time in the wilderness? Maybe not the jungle lol

 

There would be nothing to allow one person to lay claim to property. Money and private property are intrinsic ideas; I don't think one can exist without the other.

hmm. I think a third world nation would do very well to learn from the mistakes of first world nations while progress is being made. I think first world countries would do very well to look at third world countries and get a clear view of the things we've given up in the name of progress.

well said