So...

Cool guys, cool!

 

A little insecure?

It's because DRUGS ARE IMMORAL, mkay? The army doesn't condone drug use in the same way how America doesn't torture.

jk.. I don't think there's any reason why the army would specifically not want anyone to know that they're pilots are taking uppers.. when the pilots of some other countries must surely do the same.

 

As far as I know it's optional, and I don't see anything wrong with it, that's what the shit is designed for, and i'd rather see a pilot safe and high, than falling asleep and fucking shit up worse lol. Code dude, you've made the point that you are in the military and are all knowing about it in like 4 different threads now... we get it, shut up.

 

Hey people, you are not argueing with me. You are arguing with the army. I am just telling you what I was told.

Peronally, if I was a terrorist and knew about 18+ hours of drug-induced sleep after a mission, I could use the information. There are a few ways that you could use all this info though.

I said it once before, and I will say it again. OPSEC stands for OPeration SECurity. The fact that they take uppers is pretty useless, save the fact I know they will crash afterwords... But details about their missions are not supposed to be given out!

 

dude, you hear more details about missions on the fucking history channel.... you don't know as much as you think you do... sorry man

 

What are the few ways?

IMO, it would not serve me to know if that occured.
If I knew that, I'd probably also know pilots fly on rotation.
There is always a crew on stand by.
It would not be like: Gosh, that dude is asleep...we can attack because there will be know other pilots around for 18+ hours.

Details about operations is a completly other matter, imo.

 

Those ARE details about his operations. I can't believe I am arguing against this... The 'airforce dude' isn't supposed to give details about their mission. Period.

You are a fucking asshole. You said that you were in the marines? Doubtful if you don't even know what we are supposed to say and what not.

The HISTORY channel is a channel about HISTORY. They never show how we operate today. I do know as much as I think I do, trust me. I asked the company commander today, Guess what he said?.. If you don't believe me, then prove me wrong!

I guess if you REALLY want to know, I will link you to some short training.
Here Is a power point presentation. Notice page 3 bullet 3.

Or something that might be more on your level, here is another power point class. Pg. 13, bullet 2.

Or here is a link to a .gov site that might make it more clear for those of you who don't understand.

Or if you want to get really serious, here is a military document of joint operations (multi-branch. Goes for army, navy, airforce, etc..) from a .mil address. Notice the examples in appendix A-1. Under number 4 (Military intervention) I see many violations in what was told to you. b, e, f, g, and l are pretty spot on to what he said.

...

 

First of all, it would not help YOU. You are not in the right place with the right people. Obviously the information isn't useful to the average joe, otherwise it would be classified. Plus, like all the training says, it could be one piece to a puzzle.

There has already been some crazy shit happen over here for stuff that doesn't seem important. Like they got a soldiers mail in the trash can, found out where he and his family live in the united states. They were going to kill his family if he didn't suicide bomb a defac. You get the picture. Now soldiers can't wear backpacks or have bags in the defac.

 

I was putting my feet in a terrorists shoes.
I can't see how the knowledge of knowing how pilots stay up in the air for long periods of time is of any real benefit to terrorists.
All it says to me is: Oh right, fair enough.
It doesn't help in any other way, imo.
It doesn't tell me where pilots are going, what they are doing or gives me any other relevant information.

You seem to be argueing over relevant information:
Like they got a soldiers mail in the trash can, found out where he and his family live in the united states

Yeah, sure, that is relevant information and not something that should get into terrorists hands.

But: How do pilots stay up in the air for long periods of time?
Is irrelevant, imo.
How can it be a piece of a puzzle?

 

OK, I guess you are serious about not seeing how this information could be used against him. First of all, I am right about it being a opsec violation. I have the links to prove it, so it shouldn't matter. Here is a very possible situation for you.

If I am a terrorist and I have access to the area where the soldiers sleep (which does happen. Most of the help over here is Iraqi help. Were I am we are outnumbered by the help 3 to 1...) and I know that they are going on a mission for 30 hours, I will know they will be asleep afterwords. Everyone who went on that mission. I could wait for a major mission that takes a good section of the airmen to come back, knowing that they took "no-go pills" afterwords. Now I know that half of the people that took the pills will be unable to wake up and get serious fast enough for me and my buddies to attack the group that is up on guard. I just found a weak spot. That is a start for an attack plan, right?

Or I could send 30 rockets at the CHUs after the mission because I know they will be in there sleeping (this has happened before too, during my deployment.).

Or just the fact that I know they have sleep deprivation from no-go pills that make you cloudy afterwords. Now I can start to get together the other information that I need.

"their missions regularly ran past 24 hr" I also know now, that their missions often are long. I can now expect that after most missions, there will be un-alert soldiers (which don't recognize IEDs, or that they are standing in a vulnerable area (opening up a chance for a sniper to get them, which is becoming more popular than IEDs now a days).

Do any of these situations seem plausible to you? Because most of them have already happened.

"It doesn't tell me where pilots are going, what they are doing or gives me any other relevant information." conflicts with "How can it be a piece of a puzzle?"

You are awesome odon. Every time I read your posts you debate in a respectful manner. That is a whole world better than I can say about most people... I guess there has to be assholes to realize that about people like you.

 

Yeah, now that I have drawn out a situation that had happened you see how it could be bad. But do you think that throwing away an empty letter is really that big of a deal? Soldiers do it all the time over here, what are the chances of me getting caught?

Thats the main point that is stressed in basic training. That is why they break you down. Most the time, army personnel don't have time to explain everything to soldiers or civilians. Thats why it is important for you to just follow orders. Don't think about them, just do. There is a reason for everything the military does. And that is why the original post is clearly a violation of opsec. Just because people can't see why we do it doesn't mean we do it for no reason. You don't know what the enemy is capable of, and neither do I.

 

I'd say at home, it is a little bit of a risk throwing away letters with out first shredding them. Fraud is a big issue. It is not really life threatening though. But, I can appreciate the need for confidentiality when you are in war zone...there the risks to life and limb are greater.

I understand.
But, on this issue I can't comprehend.

 

You can't comprehend? Did you not read my examples? You can't understand how that could (and has) happened?

 

I read your e.g and I can agree with that.
But, the particular e.g of what the pilots take I fail to comprehend.

 

They are in a drug induced sleep. That is a much harder sleep than normal. That applies to most of my e.g..

The main reason I was arguing about this post in the beginning (actually, I was not arguing.) is because of ALL of what he said together is many different type of violations of opsec.

You said example, I was talking about post number 30. Those 4 examples show how knowing about the drugs could help. But thats not all he said either.

 

Ok, I missed post 30.
You make a good point.
I hadn't thought about that.
It does seem an unlikely scenario.
But, I'm not going to argue about it because it is a good point well made.
Thanks, for being so patient.

I give what I get.
Generally speaking I even try to be respectful to assholes.
I do fail to do that from time to time.

 

I try to give what I get too. I didn't mention anything when BDM told me to shut up, but he's just a rude guy.

If those scenarios seem unlikely, so does the mail thing. Keep in mind though, 2 of those situations have happened before. One while I was here.

 

Mmm, yeah. That was a tad rude.

Unlikely (imo - for how much that adds upto ) but not impossible.

 

This is rude and unneeded.

If there was anything other than the military in my life the past 3 years, I would be talking about something else, trust me! Plus, why should I shut up? So everyone can feel better about talking about it? Or so you guys can contemplate of the situation without any real info? Why would you not want me to be part of this conversation?

BTW, they make us get shots that are unknown. They would not tell me what 2 separate shots were. Plus, MKULTRA and all of its lower sections show that the army/CIA has been giving drugs to soldiers for a long time. Willing or unwilling. AND a lot of stuff in the military they say is "optional" is not really optional. Like you have the option to eat fatty cakes in basic, but they will smoke you (make you do push-ups and roll around etc.) until you puke your cake. It happened to me before because someone in our platoon decided to eat a god damn cake... We all paid for it... I hate the army, I really do. I wish I had something else to talk and think about... Can't wait to get out.

 

To be fair, I don't think he was telling you to shut up completely, just about something specific.
You being in the military.
I don't think he didn't want you to be part of the conversation.
Merely not prefixing your posts with the fact you are in the military.
Personally I hadn't noticed you doing that.
But either way it was a little rude.