Social Issues vs. Economics

The problem that I fear is the consequence of your actions, in relation to the world in which you live, rather than the nobility of your idealism.

 

Grass

What consequences do you fear and why do you fear them?

PS: Do you have the ability to answer questions other than cryptically?

 

To answer your latter question: it depends, Balbus. Do you want a straight-forward answer? Would a straight-forward answer benefit your life? Would a straight-forward answer be good?

 

This is starting to sound like an exchange with a Zen Master! :rofl: Grammatically correct sentences with no apparent meaning.

 

Zen "masters" would suffer my quick wit and dizzying virtue!

 

Grass

Can you answer the former question - What consequences do you fear and why do you fear them?

 

I already answered that question. The results of your actions simply lead to a new type of tyranny. You believe that rational thought is the solution to these deluded masses believing in these absurd religions, but you do not realize the tyranny of "rational thought." It is a merely a paradigm shift - a new "zeitgeist" - with a new set of mysterious problems that will slowly seep into social mechanisms.

The reason that I answer you cryptically isn't because I would like to avoid you. It is because you need to think further about the direction in which you head, rather than fight with me about how right or wrong my viewpoint may be.

Utopia has driven women and men mad for eons; this is earth, not heaven, I'm afraid. Atheists are forced into trying to achieve this goal (of turning the earth into heaven) in one lifetime, this is why you work so hard at it! You are faced with the belief of a more probable discontinuity of your own existence which presents a very odd paradox: why am I working so hard to create a life and society in which I will be forced to abandon upon my timely or untimely death? You hang onto the belief that it is for "the children" but know they will share your fate. You may wonder, "What is it all for?"

You want me to answer this question, so that you can go back to thinking like you usually think. The irony is that this "calcification of being" is exactly why you hate society. You are a living paradox tired of explaining himself ---- and so am I..

A zen master doesn't produce students, he produces masters.

 

Grass

You seem to be thinking in an absolutist way – for you it seems to be either or, right or wrong.

For you it seems to be either religious towers or rational ones that it is has to be either great wizards of the rational or great religious priests.

As I said earlier I’d not want either.

It seems that in your thinking it can only be one type of tyranny or another but why should it be tyranny at all?

To me things are a lot more complicated there are many shades and hues.

As me and Karen have indicated there are many flavours of religion and religious beliefs, just as there are differing political ideas and rationales for action.

I’m not sure how ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ your views are but so far they do seem a bit simplistic.

 

They are anything but simplistic, I have simply brought you to simplicity to reveal to you what exists inside you. Simply because you want something to be so, does not make it so. You do not see what I see, although you do know that your action will not bring about the results that you wish. I am trying to bring you to resolution of this conflict that you already realize. You argue with my views, but this is not where your argument should be directed. I'm quite probably one of the more complicated people with whom you'll ever speak.



You want to bring about social change, but you do not realize the expense. You also have not freed yourself from shit that you simply don't have to worry about.

 

I'll volunteer to be a "victim" of this.

Everyone else deludes themselves into thinking we have longer.

I'm not an atheist. I just don't have much faith in second-hand information.

No, he produces enlightened assholes.

 

This is true. You only have two options, in this human life, however: you can either be an enlightened asshole or simply an asshole.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

I did.

 

Grass

Then why are your views so simplistic, just saying they are not doesn’t work you only need to look at what you have posted to see the very basic either/or mentality you have.

Either one type of tyranny or another tyranny

Either right or wrong

Either priests or wizards

Either heaven or earth

I think only once you free yourself from this simplistic way of viewing things will you achieve some enlightenment.

 

I see, so I can fall into the complicated pile of shit that in which you live? To satisfy your desires for social welfare and "the good of all?"

 

Grass

The real world is complicated if you ignore or deny that you are basically just trapped in a simplistic fantasy of your own creation. If you really want to seek understanding then you need to see things as they are not how you’d like to see them.

Complexity isn’t shit its wonderful, if you opened your eyes you’d see that.

What is your argument against looking after the welfare of the community and societies that try and work in the best interests of all?

 

I think a primary interest of an individual should be the welfare of the community; I simply understand that this doesn't run counter to genuine self-knowledge. I am willing to seek "good" -- a concept which seems to elude you.


It is just too simple. You are just too simple. I am just too simple. That is the thundering beauty of our ordeal. May I use the word "our," just as you would?




Excuse the invasion of your privacy, but do you even remember who you are, anymore?


If I said that I am a good individual, would that make you happy? Would you allow it? I fear you would not. If you like, we could talk about good, because I think that would be the (or a) most profound discussion, my friend.





Will you let me be good?

:toilet:

 

Grass

This seems to indicate a certain ambivalence toward social welfare and "the good of all” so I asked what is your argument against looking after the welfare of the community and societies that try and work in the best interests of all?

Your reply is that for you the welfare of the community is important so why the seemingly initial hostility?

As to the meaning of good, you brought up the phrase "the good of all” can you explain what you meant?

To me ‘good’ without explanation is again a bit too simplistic a term since it can be so subjective people that have committed terrible acts of torture or violence against others can think of themselves and their actions are ‘good’ because they have fitted in with some ideology or advanced its cause. I really think you will only achieve some enlightenment if you move away from such simplistic thinking.

As I said I think societies should try and work in the best interests of all, what is your view?

 

My view is from my eyes.

 

But what you view through your eyes is interpreted in your brain, if your thinking is simplistic then it is likely your view of the world will be simplistic.

Maybe if you were a bit more open minded and stopped thinking in such simple terms as you seem to be doing at the moment you may begin to see the world as it is rather than viewing it from within your simplistic fantasy.