social stigma: what do you say to this?

:hurray:

 

well it just frustrates me that we have to deal with their constant nagging and naysaying, when they don't quite seem to understand that it is our lives and our choice. some of their views are so incredibly extreme and unbudging i can't help but fight them. i'm not trying to convince them to try lsd, just that psychedelics aren't some evil drug that will kill you. in our family we try not to leave anyone behind, and to leave them behind in ignorance would just be the wrong thing to do. although i guess they hold that exact same view.

sure it might be somewhat of an ego game, but i have come to find that if you want to make any real difference in the real world, you have to play ego games. because if you don't, the other side will play ego games anyway and you will lose. this results in no positive change. it is only in the transcendental that ego games are uneeded. this life in inexorably bound to our egos.

 

leggo the ego

 

It isn't that you must play ego games to "win". That is strictly ego that has a firm hold on your awareness.
It is by transcending the ego that universal awareness manifests, and through synchronicity, things will naturally develop as they need to.
If you are caught up on who is going to win and who is going to lose, then you have a ways to go.

 

i guess that what i should have said is that our egos are really the only way that we can imprint ourselves onto the world and make a real difference. sure you can transcend this reality, but in doing so you leave everyone else behind. it isn't like by changing yourself you change everyone else. only you change, everyone else is still miles away.

believe me i have been through the whole transcending the ego thing, and well really after all that is just another ego game. our ego tricks us into thinking that we have transcended it, even though then we hold onto the disposition of transcendence. we will always have an ego as long as we are alive.

being aware of things is about as far as we can go. any fool can tell you how things happen, but the true power rests in why.

 

This is what I was disagreeing with. Not only is our ego not the only way we can affect this reality around us, I would say it is the least effective way of affecting this reality around us.
I'm also not sure what you mean when you say "you can transcend this reality, but in doing so you leave everyone else behind." Why does transcendence signify leaving all of this behind? It is truly transcendence not when you have discarded what is around you, but when you have embraced it for what it truly is, and are at peace with what is.
There is an old saying that fits perfectly regarding this. I read it somewhere and I'm not sure exactly how it went but it was something like...
"Before enlightenment- chop wood, get water. After enlightenment- chop wood, get water."
It isn't that anything changes. We often have this amazing, spectacular light show, energy swirling, God appearing expectations put forth from the mind of what transcendence will be. But really, it is just the realization of what you are. The remembrance of what was covered up. It is truly understanding yourself, and when you truly understand yourself, you truly understand everyone else.

You change the entire world everytime you change your mind, with every breathe you take, and with every heartbeat.

Yes, we have it, much like one has a tool. But it is by no means our most powerful, or even our most useful tool.

 

I think you should focus less on your family members, and more on yourself if you want to genuinely change anything.

You've glimpsed the beyond, you need to go beyond the beyond.

I think you pretty accurately described trying to control the world through the ego with that one

 

if you want to change the world start with yourself

 

come on grEGG, when you gonna break out of that shell!?!?!

 

yeah you really have me figured out. said the pot to the kettle said the kettle to the pot etc etc onward and upward to eternity... yeah we know how this goes.

did I not include myself under the umbrella?:

the "us, they" sentiment is following the flow of the thread. If you knew me you would know I don't consider myself above or separate from anyone. The context is those who've transcended themselves and those who haven't. Of course we can go in circles about the illusion of transcendence, but there's still a difference. It's not elitist I'm judging it on what people profess to have done. The reason I felt I could comment on how little people know of their existential foundations is because I realize how incredibly little I know about my own.

Is there not a screen that filters perception? Does LSD not reduce that filter and expose something not exposed before? Does not the person tend to remember said ego reduction and is more likely to question his view of things that he might not have done otherwise? This isn't complicated or narrowminded and I don't know why I need to say it again. It's not whether you have a worldview or whether it's correct, it's how willing you are to sacrifice it and evolve to the next one, whichever it may be. LSD happens to be a lubricant that can quicken the process.

This fight you decided to pick with me is full of non sequiturs and strawmen arguments. The things you are railing against are things I never put forth. The distinction I made is basically those who take themselves very seriously and those who don't, not more aware/less aware. People who take themselves seriously have a harder time having their reality undercut and in order to give a proper framework to understand lsd one's reality is put in question. Most people aren't willing to do that so it's better to not bring in the ego and debate it (including the ego of the acid enthusiast). But what people understand are the basic driving forces of life that are so amplified by acid. They are already familiar with it so it's better to manifest the experience itself through these avenues by "being" whatever it is acid makes you, and by being the best version of it you can. If a person wants to drop in the fact that lsd benefitted them that's their choice and the observer can make of it whatever he will. My point was that people need to discover some things on their own, not have it proven to them by someone else.

 

i was under the impression you believe we cannot ever break out of that shell


but its true. if desos really wants to change the world, he can start by example, by not being a martyr for LSD, but rather living richly in the abundance of its blessings, for example. people will not understand what you try and bring them desos. they just won't. it's sad but it's true. it's not even their fault often; its the whole big picture.

 

sounds like something from a michael jackson song like "man in the mirror".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGeZYednWtI&feature=related

 

I seriously doubt that. Your reaction is a bit interesting though...

Who is doing the remembering of the "ego reduction"? Why evolve to another world view? What makes one better than another?

I've picked no fight with you. If I seemed offensive, maybe it's because I am a bit tired of the concepts displayed in your posts, and reacted a bit strongly. Conversely, perhaps I also struck a nerve...

My point was simply that whether someone takes themself seriously because they make a lot of money or keep drugs off the streets, or someone takes themself seriously because they trip psychedelics and consider themself spiritual, the fact remains that it is the same thing. It's all just ego, LSD is yet just another tool to prop our egos up with. Perhaps LSD can lead to transcendent experiences, but what can't?
I just feel that these terms, "transcendent, enlightened, spiritual", they are all thrown around much too losely and have really lost all meaning. Instead of having these experiences and taking them for what they are, we like to think that they let us into a "secret subculture", a society in which we are the ones that really know what is going on, and we have to look down at the other people who take themselves too seriously because they aren't the ones who understand themselves, only we do, because we did LSD and saw all that stuff, and don't forget the feelings either! It's all just one huge ego game, that's all I wanted to point out.

 

name calling constitutes fight-picking here.

a better worldview is one that the person determines is better for him, perhaps one in which he sees more of himself in the world, for example.

everything else in your last post I agree with so these concepts you refer to I'm unaware of. I also don't like the tendency of creating a sub-group that thinks it knows better. Part of the ironic maturation that can happen with acid is embracing one's existing culture.

honestly brother I think the particular way I expressed my point reminded you of a form of elitism. The we-they was congruent with the original spirit of the thread, but the dichotomy was those who understand what lsd is and those who don't. I didn't create any other categories, if I seemed to I apologize. Peace my friend.

EDIT: sorry it wasn't technically name-calling, more of a character attack.

 

eITHER way, the answer is do nothing, let the have not not have, more for you.

If only we all would understand there will always be many different opinions on all things, like with-in the yin and yang there are two sides, but 360 degrees, which mean each side varies by degree. There is never one right way is all I am trying to get at and even people on the same side can disagree.

If I had this problem I would ask if we could agree to disagree, because whats the use of debating with someone on what you want to do, its a ridiculous waste of energy.

 

:iamwithstupid:

 

I think all he's trying to point out is that you're stuck in the "one view is better than the other" mentality, when in reality, they're both just views, completely subjective and dominated by ego.

 

thank you I quite understood his point. It was still a non sequitur. In the case of this thread one view is more correct than the other, and that is the view of lsd without the abundant stigmas is more correct than the view of it with them. do we as trippers know what lsd is totally? no, but we see it without the stigma.

people seem to be quick to accuse acid enthusiasts of cultic self-exaltation and inner-circleship when really we are relegated to a subcultural group because it's hard to find people to relate to the experience.

I only consider a person's current state and attitudes as lacking if they themselves profess discontent with them. There's a lot of people who by their own designation are depressed, lacking, etc. I dont find those states of lesser value but people don't usually like being in them if they don't need to be. Acid can expose how we unknowingly feed the very things we don't like.

 

How exactly was it a non sequitur?

 

my original comments were dealing with straight culture's ignorance of textbook effects of lsd, as per the original spirit of the thread. It had nothing to do with whether acid heads are more enlightened than the rest or whether we know secrets to life that they don't, but that seems to be how you interpreted my comments. You also conceded that your cumulative impressions as me as a person effected your post ("I am a bit tired of the concepts displayed in your posts"). It was more about characterizing me than staying on topic and debating ideas relative to this discussion.

You just misunderstood me is all, and maybe my choice of words influenced that. But even if I was looking down on a group of people, that's actually allowed here. Personal, emotionally charged posts from one member to another are technically not.