Socialized medicine

It's just wrong to have to choose between food and medicine. And that's what it boils down to for a lot of people.
Healthcare decisions need to be made by doctors, not politicians and insurance companies. It's really funny how insurance companies have their hand out all the time for that premium, but when you need to use it, they'll fight tooth and nail not to have to pay. I'm not against them making a fair profit. But it gets ridiculous.
Some doctors, particularly the ones who are specialists making $200,00+ a year, don't want this system because they will not earn as much (however, the fact they wouldn't have to pay for healthcare for themselves and their families should make that easier to swallow). So what doctors will be left? The ones who care about people more than money. There are people who still care about others.

 

If people want socialized medicine, they can have it. I don't want it, and I should have the right to refuse it. People like Hillary Clinton and John Edwards have both talked about making state healthcare mandatory for everyone, and that's really as close to open fascism as you can get.

 

The fact that they want you to pay for it offends me. Through "for profit" insurance companies. Corporations.

What are we paying taxes for if not for ourselves?

One year's worth of Iraqi war money could take care of a lot of people, and educate them not to get suckered by the government like this.



x

 

I thought you might be a little more informed, but I guess I was wrong.

Guess what? The United States is a FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION! The government is run by the same pharmaceutical cartels that would stand to gain from a socialized system of health care. Why do you think that Hillary Clinton, who is in the pockets of big pharma, has been pushing so hard for a mandatory system of state health care? Don't think she's doing it because she cares about your health. No, they want this so they can make even more of a profit for themselves and their buddies, as well as have better control over you. If for whatever reason you're terminally ill and they find that you're not worthy of treatment, well then you're not going to receive that treatment and will be left to die.

The thing is, why would anyone who has their facts together even want health care from a government that uses depleted uranium on its own people, that puts all sorts of toxins and viruses in the vaccines, that has experimented on orphaned children, that puts fluoride in the water and chemicals in our food and air, and has a history of eugenics? I wouldn't trust these people to care for me any more than I would if I was blindfolded next to Jeffery Dahmer. Yet the ignorant, media-fed public continues to view big brother as some good shepherd that's there to care for them and give them all the good things in life.

The fact is, your taxes don't even go to keeping up the roads and infrasturcture (they go to the private owners of the Federal Reserve to pay off the interest on the national debt). And even if they did, there is a big difference between the government taking care of the roads versus dictating what kind of treatment you can receive, if at all.

 

John Edwards wanted mandatory mental health exams too. Would you want a John Edwards yes man shrink evaluating your thoughts?

 

Yeah, just like George Bush proposed under the Orwellian-titled 'New Freedom Initiative'.

 

Many, many US citizens come to Canada to buy the medicines that they need. Especially the elderly citizens who are still mobile and able to get the medicines cheaper in Canada.

Thousands of US citizens cross into Canada to receive free vaccines each and every year.

 

I don't like Jeffrey Dahmer talk. That man seriously infuriates me. Grrrrrrrr.

 

Hmmm, did you see Sicko by any chance?

I thought the part about the woman who lived in the states but took advantage of our health care system by using a relative's address and whatnot to claim she was eligible or something along those lines...Anyways, I thought that was very interesting.

Pressed Rat, I really don't understand what you're talking about. I can understand the basis of your argument. Government + Healthcare = BAD. But, think about it, there isn't any government out there with universal healthcare that is acting in the way that you describe is there? Or are you simply talking about what you believe the U.S. government would do? Either way, it's not as much government involvement as you believe, at least, I don't believe it is. In Canada, we have the segment of the government called the Ministry of Health. or Health Canada (Canadians, feel free to correct me if I make a mistake here) and I think the government basically doles out money to these people (unless it's provincial who take care of it :S) from the budget and they (who are medical professionals and experts, who actually DO have the nation's health interests at heart) decide to where specifically money goes and how things roll. I think it's more of a government answers to the needs of the health ministries, not the other way around...

But even if I am completely wrong (I should really look into it more, it's quite interesting to discuss how countries handle healthcare differently, no?), I guess you do have more reason to be paranoid than us. I think with our government, it's much easier to hold the right people accountable for mistakes and wrongdoings than it is with yours. I could still be wrong there....I'm not very confident in what I'm saying as you can tell. But really, my point is, universal healthcare isn't quite government or heads of government calling the shots on who gets what, where and why. It's more of a financial thing with money going straight to medical practices from taxes than from insurance companies or out of people's pockets.

 

Never seen sicko, no. I may watch it if it's the only thing on late night this summer or something. I have no real interest in Michael Moore.

Most people don't understand that in Canada we have Universal Health care that is a program run by the department of Health - and the nature of our health care system is NOT a totally public system. It's a two tier system. Meaning, we have private practices, private services, private funding, private hospitals, etc alongside publicly funded medical related services and costs. These services both public and private are micro-managed by the health legislation of each individual province.

It's not like our government fits the bill on every possible thing, no. We have health insurance companies that cover our benefits, just like everyone has to in the USA. Only our benefits and coverage are far superior in Canada than in the USA because the Universal Health care program by the Federal government acts as a cushion to pay for basic health needs for all Canadians.

 

Ah, thank you...I knew I muddled some stuff up there...I'm exhausted. Yeah, your explanation makes a lot more sense and is much clearer. I forgot about the private stuff that still goes on, but I thought it wasn't very widespread, only in a few provinces and very much frowned upon...

 

It's obstinate and wrong to claim that Canada operates on a Socialized Medical Program. It's socialized in the sense that some funding costs go towards basic health needs of Canadians, but it's not a socialized structure since employers, insurance companies and private services are also paying for the costs of medicine in Canada.

 

It's time doctors made ALL the medical decisions and to eliminate the insurance companies that are middlemen

I worked for several HMOs in my life, and one of them was impressively honest, at least in terms of patient care. All medical policy was written by MDs (actually we had physicians with DO and DDS degrees also) after formal peer-review, with major decisions being made with all parties anonymized, etc. When problems did arise, it was usually a situation where management failed to correctly act in accordance with those medical policies (by "policy" here I odo not mean "insurance policy," but to internal policies/procedures).

But if your doctor says "you really need this, but your HMO says it isn't necessary so they won't cover it" with a big unhappy sigh, that does NOT mean that your doctor believes that medical service to be a good idea. Typically it's easier for a physician to say "your HMO says they won't cover it" than it is to explain to Joe Public, in scientific terms, why that particular test/procedure is not considered medically appropriate.

Talk to any doctor, and they'll admit to ordering totally unnecessary and inappropriate tests and medicines due simply to patient pressure and inability to understand the science behind the decision-making. And they do this every day. Ask any medical doctor. This is one of the many issues that must be addressed.

One of my sisters is an RN at a major hospital, so I recently asked her about the role of HMO peer review nurses, you know, those people who "kick people out of the hospital to save money." While she did agree that often patients were discharged inappropriately, she also said that those HMO nurses serve a very valuable and helpful role, because doctors often get lazy and fail to write down critically important things, unless someone's breathing down their neck about it. I'd heard this from our HMO's peer review nurses, but it was good to hear the exact same thing from the "other side" as well.

While that HMO had a good honest medical policy, some of their other ways of doing business were very corrupt, and in fact the company lost the largest lawsuit in the history of this city (which was a good thing, the company re-organized and improved under new management).

I could go on and on, I have a lot of opinions on such matters. But it's criminal that a nation like the US doesn't provide free care (that is, paid for by those who own for a living, rather than work for a living) to its poorest citizens.

Okay, lunch hour over, must go...

 

That's all I think the working poor of the US want is just a guarrantee, that they will receive basic care when ill without worrying about how they are going to pay for it. HMOs were supposed to be the solution but we've seen how well they work, and now that they are about the only game in town they are just as expensive as the old plans. Like all deregulation the return to the consumer has not panned out. I wonder when we will ever wake up and see that all those promises of a stronger market without regulation just haven't worked.

Funny thing is back when healthcare was a benefit of employment we didn't have to worry about how to pay for it. Our employers negotiated with the insurance companies. But now that the employer doesn't pay, the employee can't afford to, and the insurance companies just keep raising the premiums. Who exactly benefitted?

 

That's exactly it, right there. I wouldn't have a problem paying for insurance, if I was sure it actually would follow through when we needed it. Our insurance has been going up at least $100 /month each year for a family of 4, for the past few years. Why??? We've never even met our deductible. They've never had to pay a penny out. I called them and asked if it would continue to go up like it is, the lady I talked to said, "probably". We are a middle class working family, I imagine within 5-7 years we will not be able to afford insurance anymore. And if you ever, ever have a serious health problem, the insurance company is going to drop you like a hot potato, and forget about finding any other insurance company to take you on. Think if you need a kidney transplant or something the insurance is going to pay for that? Dream on! We had a guy here in town that died because he couldn't afford dialysis. Because his insurance dumped him, and he couldn't afford the private blue cross insurance you can buy from the state if you are "uninsurable" (last I knew it was about $400 a month for a healthy person in their 30's.....this guy it would have been probably $1500+....and he wasn't working anymore...because he was so sick.) That's what sucks about it...it's absolutely ridiculous, and people just accept that it's the way it is. But you keep it, because God forbid you have a heart attack or something.
It just pisses me off to no end that our taxes get spent on stupid shit all the time, but fundamental human rights (like the right to get help if you are hurt or sick....I think that's a right, not a privilege) are ignored. Which, I guess it shouldn't suprise me.

 

At this time Fannie Mae (FNMA) and Freddie Mac: (FHLMC) are colapsing due to lack of oversight by media and politicians.

If a New Century Mortgage colapses, who really cares, the stockholders employees and creditors loose but its a public corporation. Loans are not goverment insured. Capitalists go out of business all the time.

Should FNMA and FHLMC go down Joe Public will be on the hook for the loss.

The Directors of FHLMC and FNMA have been behaving as a Lender of Last Resort, kowtowing to community activist groups, In bed with mortgage companies. All flying under the media radar because they say the right things, make the right donations and engage community activists to support housing initiaives.
So these cowboys can wear white hats, and fly under public scrunity.

Our media crusaders need a hook to put out a story and FNMA/ FHLMC belong on the business pages.

Media will feed you a peace mom; Cindy Sheehan sweating in the Crawford sun. A fetching blonde, Valerie Plame testifying about lost privacy before Congress. or yet another Natalie Holloway story.

They are just not intelectually equiped to investigate the Public Sector fraud and malfeasence.

This is one reason we do not need the goverment fucking up our health care.

:biggrinjester:

 

Never in my life have I experineced a doctor say: You don't need this

These people have put my Pricncess on The Medical Merry-Go Round as each physician gravely refers her to the next specialist, the next round of lab tests the next procedure. All these referal to to friends colleages and business partners. Nobody found anything wrong they just generated tons of fees for the firms.

I had to say: Its old age dear, you are healthy, just suck it up.

These guys can act just like mortgage brokers at times which is why co-pay is always a good idea.

 

I wish someone could explain to me why if the government screws everything up do we continue to pay so much to maintain it.

Personally I think the US government in the past has done some things very well.

• Our public school system used to be one of the best, before it became politicized.
• The FDA used to provide some of the best protection in the world from food and drug contamination.
• Worker's compensation laws provided for the safety of workers and safer workplaces.
• Medicare provided for the medical needs of our elderly and medicaid for the needs of the poor.
• The GI Bill rewarded our soldiers with full educations on reentry into society after service in wars or peace time, the VA provided full health care for all vets.
• National parks were national treasures and retreats, now they are simply areas to be mined for profit of all their resources.
• Our legal system used to protect everyone, now it only protects monied interests.

What really happened to undermine these programs? I think the simple answer is corruption with the willing hand of bought and paid for legislators.

As long as we don't demand a full financial accounting for all who vote on policy this will continue. Every congressman and their entire families and charitable trusts should be under intense scrutiny as to where their influence can be purchased.

Every argument for deregulation or revision of what used to be great programs are always couched with the explanation that deregulation and revision will offer lower prices and greater market gains that will trickle down. Thing is we never followup on the results, they have never in my experience lead to either, but we continue to buy the hype. I've never felt any trickle down...have you?

Now they don't even rely on the trickle down talk... they send a 600.00 check in years where you are really under the gun and you are supposed to forget things aren't getting better. While they watch their portfolios triple you happily spend your 600.00 and think things are getting better while having to accept the fact you can't pay your mortgage and sometimes because you spent the milk money on gas or a medical bill you have to eat your cereal dry.

 

Ask yourself why medical jobs like nursing are one of the best occupations to train for today? Because the profit is there they are expanding. Level of care isn't increasing but profit is because of deregulation.

Medical malpractice often cited as the boogeyman of health care expenses. If mistakes weren't made how could that actually be a factor. Think about it. Should you abdicate your right to recourse to protect who? The doctors and hospitals that make mistakes? So perhaps you can recieve cheaper rates but by who... doctors and hospitals that make mistakes? Such a bargain!

I know from experience it's hard to find an attorney that will take a medical malpractice case unless you can pay up front. For the working person they are impossible to even investigate. The ranks close and the records are hidden. I am sorry, but I am not buying it anymore.

 

I've seen it trickle through both parties political campaigns.

That's the way of things.