Soy harms male fertility??

well, he must've got onto the right diet too late in life.

glad you read it

Besides, arterial inflamation is multi-factorial -- diet is just one reason

http://www.***********/2005/may/28/cholesterol_heart.htm

 

heh!!


kept trying to post his pic as well but couldn't work it out and gave up when the munchies struck, however he does look awfully young to have got into anything too late!!
:H
most likely reason...unhealthy diet...either that or genetics or he caned it too hard at some point and blew a valve or...who the hell knows!!!

just had one of those postscript sorta thoughts...maybe he had loadsa plastic surgery to keep himself looking so young and had a stroke on the operating table!!!
yup...that would explain it!!!

 

yeah, it's only anecdotal, so there's a bazillion reasons why he could've had a stroke.

He does look a bit young though

 

It's not about the "quantity" of information, it's about the QUALITY of information.

You can prove anything using internet sources. You can prove anything by picking a single line out of a scientific study. If you want to make health claims, link the actual studies or link articles from relatively disinterested third parties.

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
Front for the low carb diet cult

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/503781.stm
Interesting article, but where's the link to the study. There is no way to determine what "high" levels of soy were for the study. How much soy were these women eating? And were they feeding the mice soy or were they injecting high levels of phytoestrogens directly into their little bodies? Soy is like any other thing. If you eat too much of something it is typically not good for you.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0%2C9950%2C1342291%2C00.html
From the article: "Soya is used to 'bulk out' and bind many processed foods, such as sausages, lasagne, beefburgers and chicken nuggets and it allows food firms to claim a higher protein content on the label. Some research estimates that soya is present in more than 70 per cent of all supermarket products and widely used by most fast food chains." In other words, the typical omnivore who eats the SAD gets more soy in a much more processed form than those of us who eat tofu and tempeh once in awhile.

http://www.tnation.com/findArticle...le=body_87prote
A body builder named Spike who is apparently worried that all the "female" hormones in soy will keep him from pumping up. Reality: there are successful Vegan bodybuilders, and they probably eat soy.

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/tragedy.html
The Weston A. Price foundation is based on the teachings of a dentist who noticed that primative people apparently had better teeth than industrialized people. He did not do any legitimate scientific studies to back up his theories. Nothing on their web site has any real legitimacy unless by sheer luck.

http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/food/soy_story.html
If at all possible, women should not be feeding their children any kind of formula, soy or not. Infants should be breast fed is at all possible. This is what nature intended. The health risks associated with cow milk formula are not small. Beyond that, this article was authored by Kaayla T. Daniel, who is in the business of selling her book, which condemns soy. She is also selling the secrets of looking 30 years younger and other things in her individual seminars.

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/isoflavones.html
See above comment on the Weston A. Price Foundatation

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=302poison2
See above comment on Spike

http://www.theomnivore.com/Soy_and-aggression.html
This is a web site called "The Omnivore." No further comment needed.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_143soy
Again, see above on Spike.

 

Neither vitamin B12 or vitamin D2 come from animal sources. B12 is bacterial and is found in high concentrations in meat and eggs, but you can purchase suppliements of vegetarian B12. Vitamin D2 is a white crystalline compound produced by ultraviolet irradiation of ergosterol.

I have never claimed that humans are not omnivores. But the fact that we can biologically tolerate meat does not mean that we MUST eat meat to be healthy.

The fact that you linked this article prove that you have been brainwashed by the low carb cult, which is your business. But I wonder, why is it that someone who has an obvious interest in low carb dieting hanging around in a VEGETARIAN forum? Trolling around, maybe?

 

Good.

Your enthusiastic replies mean you may have read at least some of the links. That's encouraging.

I'm not sure how you link the last article to brainwashing, and: "the low carb cult"? That's pretty strong. The only thing 'round these parts which might resemble a cult would be the fruitarians or raw foodists. I'm not really a low-carb guy -- I exercise a lot, so I don't think I'd be able to go too low on carbs.

Good point, and also rational, yet you follow up with some irrational kookiness such as "a front for the low carb cult", and that another article is a "brainwasher"??!! WOW.

I guess I tested the waters by throwing in some unreferenced articles, which you duly queried, which is fair enough (I'm also a little dubious about the Western Price stuff), but you seem to have glossed over the referenced links.
These articles are referenced, and short of digging up the referred studies, I think this is as much as can be expected on an internet forum.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_87prote
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_143soy
http://www.theomnivore.com/Soy_JAMA_Jul_2004.html

this response is emotive, jaundiced, irrational, insufficient, and, I hate to say, TYPICAL. So what if the guy is an ardent omnivore? If he has the facts, he has the facts. Are you suggesting he's comprimised?

good, This is an important distinction.

Well, believe it or not, I care about people, and if I can save one young, impressionable kid from anaemia and/or a b12 deficiency, then my work here is done.

Despite the efforts of some of the more moderate contributors to this forum, we still occasionaly hear the classics, such as: "don't worry about b12 and iron; just eat mushrooms." This is why I'm here, to counter such dangerous advice.

I'm also a nutrition undergraduate, so the occasional "discussion" such as this motivates me to research some slightly extracurricular topics

 

unfortunately, his diet was the least of his troubles

http://www.powerhealth.net/archives/1May2004.htm

he was pretty sick. It's a bit depressing, actually.

 

I completely agree that anyone undertaking a Vegan diet should be informed. But rather than link articles with little or no actual scientific backing, you would be doing far more good to recommend that anyone thinking about going Vegan read "Becoming Vegan." This is a factual, relatively unbiased book with information about both the pros and potential cons of being Vegan.

As I stated earlier, you can "prove" anything by quoting studies. Atkins Nutritionals writes apparently very well-researched papers. That is until you realize that they often quote other papers written by other people associated with Atkins Nutritionals. They are also good at quoting legitimate studies out of context and quoting articles written by people who aren't even MDs. I hope you are learning critical thinking at your college, so you can tell the difference between the legitimate and those who's primary concern is the amount of money in their pockets.

I do find it very odd that you are so concerned with vegetarians and your perceptions that we are prone to B12 deficiency and anaemia. How many people ended up in the emergency room last year because of B12 difficiency? Not nearly as many as thoe who ended up there with chest pains from years of eating the Standard American diet. How many people died last year from diet-related anaemia? Not nearly as many as those who died of cancer, heart disease and stroke brought on by poor lifestyle choices.

I want to make it clear that being Vegan is not the healthiest alternative in and of itself. Like any dietary choice, in order to be healthy, you must eat a well-balanced diet. You can eat a well balanced diet and be healthy as a Vegan. Or you can eat nothing but french fries and ABC cookies and become very ill. Additionally, for most people, Veganism isn't really that much about health. It's about living with compassion. With the right dietary choices, being a Vegan can also be a healthy choice. The main point of being a Vegan, though, is recognizing that you are not more important than those who cannot adequately defend themselves against you.

 

Just to prove that you can find actual medical studies and abstracts on the Internet:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11497534&dopt=Abstract

 

sounds good

Well, this is emotive and misrepresentative, and you know it. True, people obviously aren't dropping dead all over the place of these "ailments", but, as I'm sure you know, anaemia goes largely unrecognised, as does b12 deficiencies, and (as I'm sure you also know) the latter can take years to develop and can lead to irreversible complications.

This is something I actually find admirable, but you must admit there's plenty of fruitarian whacko types that DO think some of the extreme lifestyle choices are about their health, and that they can survive and thrive on lentals and shiitake mushrooms