Strengthen your faith in the bible Christians.

In a way, yes.

I don't know why you wouldn't

Actually it's a comment on both.

Perhaps but you have no proof of that, whereas it is interesting to note Jesus saved this comment for a time when the men around him were very definitely "doing" something.

Forgiveness literally means, let go off. It doesn't have anything to do with judging one way or another. It doesn't even mean forgetting. Forgiveness is just letting go of what has happened.

Guilt and innocence are just two words that have no relative meaning outside a specific instance. Asking someone to choose between guilt and innocence outside a specific instance is like asking someone which is better apples or oranges.

Also I gave you many ways my stance is different than theirs but it seems you have decided to just ignore them.

Yes that does mean that all humans are God's children but not in the sense that you keep using the phrase "a child of god".

When you use the phrase you believe it to mean that they are perfect and sinless and what Jesus is saying here is that God loves us all just like a good father does and is not talking about the nature of being "a child of god".

Being a good father does not mean that all your children will make the right choices or be good people. In fact some of your children may even reject you as their father and claim as their father another.

According to this, then why do you call yourself "a child of god"?

I have condemned no one and could not even if I wanted to but I can tell you what the Bible says on the matter. If you really want to disagree with God on this matter that is up to you.

Next time time if you can't think of a good answer just say so.

 

Well to be in the same camp, we would have the same scenery but from your description, I would say we are not living in the same camp.

As for loving you, I would not have spent all this time with you if I did not have love for you.

 

I don't know if the dope answered this, haven't got that far yet but a person is about 6 when starting first grade and so adding a year for each grade, someone in 8th grade would be about 14, give or take a smidgen.

 

no he did'nt answer that question.thanks brother

 

your an artist alright of unstraight double talkin'.i'm an artist too. an artist of the all seeing eye of discernment!!

 

ok, so whos edys an wilwilled's god then? what religion are they ?

 

No dear, i did not interpret what you said in a negative light. My response contains some of my past where people wonder why I speak the way I do. I suppose you could say I read a lot and was always picking up new vocabulary. I spent two years in latin countries and learned to speak spanish, which helps improve your command of language altogether. Whenever I have thought of pursuing things academically I have considered linguistics as one field I was interested in.

As to my god. My god is beyond all symbols, which is actually what an unpronounceable name is all about. My god is the magnanimous intent that causes all things to be and I am is the surname I inherit from him in creation.

 

Because the sayings of christ are not based on circumstance, but apply in every instance.

Well, you have no proof that he saved a comment only that he made one in that instance. My understanding, never proof, is based on consistency of premise.

.

"What happened", is entirely up to .your description of what happened, by our words we are justified

Very well your specific choice is between the children of god being created innocent and ever remaining so, and being born sinful.

I did not ignore them, I said that they were circumstantial differences and not fundamental ones. The fundamental choice between jesus and barrabas is between guilt and innocence, not between the son of god and a criminal.

Actually, he says no more do I accuse you, go and sin no more. How can one go and sin no more, if they are sinful by nature?

So, making bad choices does not make you a bad person, nor does it condemn you in god's eyes. And yes some people live in self denial, but that does not alter the fact that god is love and love can only be like itself. Just because you deny you are a child of god does not make you not a child of god it only means that that fact is obscure to you.

I usually don't speak of myself as male but human.

Again, you said very specifically that I am condemned. Those are your words, not the words from the bible or any other scripture. You insist, that I am condemned. You say you do not do it, but there is no one else here making that claim and I am condemned in your mind. The passage where jesus asks peter what he believes is a christ teaching, not just colorizing filler.

 

Have you not read; Leaving there, Jesus now withdrew into the parts of Tyre and Si′don. And, look! a Phoe‧ni′cian woman from those regions came out and cried aloud, saying: “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David. My daughter is badly demonized.” But he did not say a word in answer to her. So his disciples came up and began to request him: “Send her away; because she keeps crying out after us.” In answer he said: “I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” When the woman came she began doing obeisance to him, saying: “Lord, help me!” In answer he said: “It is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.” She said: “Yes, Lord; but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.” Then Jesus said in reply to her: “O woman, great is your faith; let it happen to you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed from that hour on.

Yeah, never proof alright.

Anyway the point was, which you missed, that Jesus said it at a time when the men around him were very definitely "doing" something and they were unaware of the real meaning of what they were doing, making what he said applicable to what was happening.

Yeah right, it's all a matter of perception.

I pick a third, that the children of God, Adam and Eve were created perfect and sinless and choose not to remain that way and so all of their children from that point on were born sinful.

Same thing.

No it's not a choice between guilt and innocence, it is a choice between the son of God and a criminal.

Well, in actuality, verb here is in the present tense, which indicates a continuing action. so Jesus is saying; go and practice sin no more. So Jesus is talking about willfully continuing to sin and not that a person can actually sin no more.

What in the world are you talking about?

Honestly, what in the world are you talking about?

Honestly, saying you are condemned and actually condemning you are two different things. At least try to understand what is being talked about.

 

What are you trying to say here, that christ was disobedient?

Why do you mock?

I didn't miss your point. Obviously jesus was crucified. But his statement on the cross is not a commentary on what they were doing, only that they did not know what they were doing. It was and is a christ teaching.The way you describe it, the men were purposefully treating jesus badly and jesus asks for forgiveness for that act. What christ is saying is that they are not guilty by reason of insanity. They did not know what they were doing.

Now you are getting it, the eye is the lamp of the body, however you are creator like god and your perceptions, or your decisions, statements about what must be, create the view of the world you see.

So you believe you are unlike your creator? Is not being born sinful meaning guilty of sin, full of sin?
You are passing the buck, Again, in regards to your own guilty verdict by saying adam made us that way. Adam does not make your choices for you, does not breathe with your diaphragm. Jesus said what do you say, for by your words you are justified, not by the actions of adam.

You are confusing form with content. The scene is not just a circumstantial portrayal of events, it is a christ teaching.

Well in actuality you left out, the part, where are your accusers, no more do I condemn you. What could she have been accused of but sin?

See below.

Honestly, if you believe that then you do not understand christ teaching.
By your words you are justified, by your words you are condemned. Your words lend transient character to the world you see. You cannot say I am condemned without believing I am condemned. You ask how do you condemn me and I say I am condemned in your mind. It is the same principle as when you look at a woman lustfully, you had already fornicated with her in your heart and mind.

 

I didn't say anything, I merely quoted a Scripture. Is it your "perception" that sees disobedience in Jesus?

Mock? You said it, I merely agreed.

How about that.

Well, they were rather purposefully putting him to death, it wasn't a accident.

And Jesus was not calling them insane, what he was talking about was, although they knew they were putting him to death, they did not have any idea about the full import of what they were doing, so forgive them.

No, whereas some, like you, try to create your own world, I'm happy with the one God created.

In many ways, I believe I am like my creator. We both have free will for instance. but in many ways we are not the same, if not I would be God and I am not.

Yes, being sinful is one of the ways God and I are different.

Passing the buck? My guilty verdict? You just don't listen do you?

No, Adam does not make my choices for me but I did inherit my sinful nature from him.

And it takes more than just words to justify a person, you need act in agreement with your words.

It is you, that is trying to make it something that it is not and then trying to judge me by what you have made up.

Actually this account is not found in the earliest original language manuscripts but that aside, she was accused of sin and Jesus did not say that she had not sinned but that he would not condemn her for it and then told her not to practice (that) sin anymore.

If I say someone has blue eyes, it is just a statement of fact, my saying so does not make that person have blue eyes.

Likewise my saying someone is condemned does not make that person condemned and in fact, as I have already pointed out, I have no power or authority to condemn anyone, so my saying so can't not make anyone condemned but if the Bible indicates that all mankind is condemned, saying so is just a statement of fact and not, as you seem to believe, an act of condemnation.

 

Not at all. You quoted a scripture to make a point or statement, did you not?
What point are you trying to make by quoting that scripture?, that the things jesus taught were circumstantial? If anything it points to the fact that christ teaching applies to any situation, not just hebrew practice.
Mock? You said it, I merely agreed.
How about that.

They were not in their right mind.

No sir, that would be antithetical to christ teaching to say forgive them because they do not know how heinous their crime is. Jesus accused no one but the scribes and associates and the money changers, and no one of killing him. No one takes my life from me, I lay it down of my own accord.

Yes my friend, you create for your self and share with others temporary conditions, your creations on earth, through the blessings of your mind. This is called doing your will. God's will is that your eye be sound that you do not fall into a pit of accusation.

So man was not created in the likeness and image of god?
Yes, being sinful is one of the ways God and I are different.

You can't hear yourself, can you, you think you hear only the bible?

You inherited your divine nature from god, call no man your father.

The abundance coming forth from you is that I am condemned, you are convinced of it, you try to convince me of it, and I ask you who accuses the children of besides you?

I am not judging you, I am trying to show you the lack of foundation for your belief that man is sinful in nature and not created by god.

Why would you say that account s not in the earliest original language manuscripts, are you trying to say it is of dubious importance? No my friend, again, satan is the accuser, it is the accusation that condemns your brother in your mind, but as you do to him you do to yourself also. Jesus said, stop the accusations, go and sin no more. Where are your accusers he says, not where are those who have accused you of adultery.

You are correct you have no power to condemn anyone apart from yourself, but you attempt to take them with you through accusation. That which you create for your self you share with every one else. That is why it is said we love our brother as ourselves. The accusation is that we are sinners, unlike god. You say it is not your accusation but the bible's. The bible does not speak, if you think it does, then you are seriously disturbed. It is your judgment or belief that counts, the bible does not believe for you. If you believe and do not doubt etc., have salt in yourself other wise you are no good for seasoning.

 

The point to made had nothing to do with Jesus being disobedient, that come from your own heart and what believe about Jesus.

The point being that, as Jesus said, he was sent only to the house of Israel but because of the faith shown he made an exception in her case. Which flies in the face your obstinate insistence on everything being a universal teaching, with no exceptions.

They were in their right mind, they just didn't know the import of what they were doing.

Where do you come up with these things? I say import of what they were doing and you say heinous crime?

Jesus didn't say for forgive them for killing me, he said forgive them because they do not know what they are doing.

No that is you. You deny the existence of death and birth and your own human father, then you say I'm making it up. I think it is time that you take your advice; "God's will is that your eye be sound that you do not fall into a pit of accusation".

I think so, are you saying now you don't think so?

You run around accusing me of things like passing the buck and judging others guilty. And this from the one that say not to judge and to love. Then you say I can't hear myself, it time you look in the mirror.

I have inherited many things from my heavenly father and I also inherited many things from my earthly father. And yes I call both father.

Well, still not listening I see.

Once more; "My saying someone is condemned does not make that person condemned and in fact, as I have already pointed out, I have no power or authority to condemn anyone, so my saying so can't not make anyone condemned but if the Bible indicates that all mankind is condemned, saying so is just a statement of fact and not, as you seem to believe, an act of condemnation. "

So how do yo define judgement anyway, is part of your definition, that it is always what someone else does?

Why? Because it is a fact that it is not in the earliest original language manuscripts, what's why.

What i'm saying is it may have been added later and may not be part God's word.

Actually, as I have said so many times before, I can not condemn anyone, I have neither the power or the authority to do so but so nice of you to falsely to accuse me of it.

This is what it says at John 8:10-11 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

So where is this "stop the accusations, go and sin no more" you're talking about?

once again you accuse me without basis.

Once again you make up what is unreal and share it and try to make other live in your made up world but I find it easier to accept reality.

Yep

You can't let go of this can you? Thus you will never understand God or his message to you and all mankind.

And you say not to judge, so what is it? Since you here equate judgement with belief, are we not to believe anything either?

 

To both of you, my mother used to tell me that the only person who truly knows the bible is the person who uses the scripture to prove their point. Without scripture all words are meaningless. I may not be a Christian but I think those words definintly apply to this situation.

 

we worship in spirit and truth. What scripture do you find absent?

 

so knowing spanish is a good overall help on the command of any laguage.interesting.i love languages too.ya linguistics would be a great field.you should go for it.and just pickin' up new words is good to from other people,just askin them what it means when you hear a new one.i do that loads.its easy,cos you dont have to study them.just ask.an then you remember it forever.its interesting also how you defended the fact that you were'nt a lot a school educated. but i get that.i still dont understand who you god is,even though i understood what you said.is it that buddah guy ? i did'nt get much school either.i was in my first job when i was 12. in a colledge interestingly enough. i was just cleaning,but learned loadsa new words from the students. an the teachers on their lunch breaks. ha! ha!

 

You communicate just fine. My god is beyond symbols therefore I cannot tell you his name, however the one waterbrother calls my good spirit buddy is a level of communication between my source and myself. Inside all of us is a guide that we choose with. That guide could be your idea of truth, or the way you think things ought to be. But if you will notice, your mind gives you choices on an issue that you decide amongst.

 

I just wanted to chime in about barrabas. In the oldest Greek scriptures they included the first name as Jesus Barrabas and barrabas means "son of the father" or "son of Abba". So there was Jesus Christ they wanted to kill and Jesus Barrabas, the "bandit" they wanted released. I thought that was interesting.

 

Is interest the sum total of your observation or do you feel those names have some significance in metaphoric quality?

 

thanks edy. so lets rephrase the question then. who or what is your source ? i think you may be just talking about your mental consciousness and inner instincts . i agree that your mind gives you choices,but the wisest ones come from how well you listen to your inner instincts.