sup nerds

total bullshit.

its just a conspiracy theory.

no matter how fucked up the government is and how much you think its lying about shit, they would NOT allow someone who is not born in America to be president.

who the fuck cares what was posted on "factcheck.org"? its a fucking website. the internet is full of dumb made up fake shit. thats why its the internet duh.

believe or not, our government has to comply by the constitution. and since clearly Obama has been elected president and is currently serving his term AND neither congress or the supreme court have said ANYTHING about him not being born in America (which due to our system of "checks and balances" they're pretty much required to do something to prevent the constitution from being broken) I'm pretty positive he's born in America.

fuck the "birther" conspiracy theories.

and while we're at it, all members of the so-called "Tea Party" movement are idiots and 97% of them are racist assholes just trying to get Jim Crow laws put back in effect.

thank you conservative bastards who are just angry that the repubs got kicked out for a term. suck it up.



and you should read this: i find it hilarious
http://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com/2010/04/15/we-survived-bush-youll-survive-obama/

 

W O W !

This is the part that I have never understood about the US, how can two opposing views that both nave compelling arguments exist ... it seems that there is an ongoing state of 'stale-mate' on virtually every social / political issue in the US.

Just shooting in the dark here, but is it possibly a product of a centralised federation, I mean, each 'state' has it's own experience, but at the same time has a collective experience?

I know that is a pretty simplistic, lame reasoning and requires a further explanation, but does anyone kinda get where I'm coming from?

One Love!

 

there are two reasons why the u.s. has the problems that you described don

1) racial fractionalization. poor= black=small welfare state
2) political institutions. electoral system, two party system, judicial review and check and balances.

there are also other reason, such as geography. the land is so big it is difficult for people with the same interests to organize. not to mention, it is next to impossible for third parties to reach any sort of real success. also, the fact that we haven't experience a war on our own land, doesn't create a good environment for socialist parties. fact is, most americans are more moderate than the politicians that represent them.

 

Ahoy Sister ... thanx for the reply, it's one thing for peeps to speak about the US on the foreign policy level, but it's another thing for peeps like me that have never been over to comment about what is happening internally.

I would imagine that it is possible, given the scale of your country and the federal aspect, that even education may vary from one state to another ... not necessarily a difference in content, but more what is prioritised. Am I off point thinking this?

Is the geographical scale the big variable that leads to a two-party system, or are there other big factors too ... like entrenched structures that don't allow for it, or a farce rivalry between Dem / Rep that hasn't been settled.

Also, dumb question, sorry, is the Dem / Rep line roughly drawn according the same dynamics as the Civil War from the past?

Man, sorry to bug ya with the blab, blab ... but it's always interesting reading what US Peeps have to say about internal issues. Once again, I think most peeps outside the US view your country in terms of it's foreign policy, but I would think that on a rational level there are domestic characteristics that paint a different picture internally.

Like, I'm not sure many Non-US Peeps know about how big Food Not Bombs is in the States ... or the amount of funding US NGOs raise for GreenPeace ... even Eart First … the Campaign For Food Sovereignty, to name a few …

... bad I'm just wondering about what ya mentioned about a lot of US peeps being moderate. Considering that you have the most powerful military and the most resourced police service in the world, how many Peeps, anywhere in the world, would feel that confident being in opposition to the State.

As far as President BO, it's a peculiar scenario ... of course he is the US state leader, but there are so many peeps around the world that fell a connection to him, that I don't think it's as easy as saying, well their is an evil elite that control things on the inside, therefore logic says BO is their puppet.

I mean, on a global level BO is massive, bigger than any present leader I can think of on an international level ... and the last time the world watched an election so closely was Nelson Mandela's victory.

So I dunno ... as much as the underground elite have all sorts of ugly power, BO has a different kind of power, and with that comes responsibility to not let it slip ... particularly by speaking out and getting his head shot off, I mean it's a dangerous game he is in now.

I would think that getting all revolutionary for someone in BO's position would be a one-off stunt, so if he is gonna, it will have to be when the time is really right ... but surely now is too soon, so I think that's why it may seem as if he is one of the bad guys ...

But hey, once again, LOL, that's just an outsider’s 2 cents, so I'm not sure to what extent it has any validity ... hahaha

Anyway, thanx again Vig

One Love!

 

LMAO. yes continue to be the sheeple that believes everything that the media feeds you. "oh the US would never ever hurt me" is EXACTLY what they want you to think.

"CONSPIRACY THEORY"

YO, There are legit school records from Indonesia that are completely undeniable that Barack went to school in Indonesia and therefore MUST have been a citizen of Indonesia and therefore MUST have lost his natural born citizenship.

You probably didn't even bother to read everything I said because you were so enraged at the fact that someone was shooting down your boy Hussein.

Have a great fuckin' day with your fake president.

 

you still haven't shown any actual evidence that indonesia required students at the time to be citizens, nor evidence that indonesia at that time required naturalised citizens to give up any other citizenships. so far you've just made statements to that effect without any evidence. not a very compelling argument, friend.

further, citizenship law is national/federal law, not international law, so although indonesia may consider obama to have given up his american citizenship, america, legally, may not consider that to be the case.

edit: nor have you told us who indonesia was at war with at the time that obama was there. from memory i believe obama would have been resident in indonesia in the late sixties. again from memory, i believe there was civil war/ uprisings/ political upheaval in the early sixties but by the late sixties sakarno (??? or was he the earlier leader?) had taken power and things were relatively calm? even if that conflict was still going on, i don't know why internal conflict would affect indonesia's citizenship law. i don't remember anything about indonesia being at war with anyone else until they invaded east timor in the seventies (?) but no-one outside of east timor took much notice of that at the time, so i don't understand why that would have affected indonesian relations (and thus citizenship law as you claim) with the rest of the world.

another edit: sukarno was the earlier president. suharto took power from him in the sixties.

 

Education is a power trusted to the state governments, so it does vary widely. It is one of the biggest and ignored problems in this country in my opinion. The only hand that the federal government usually has is in funding education. We are nation that is being taught archaic skills that we can't even use in this country. The system is still based on the idea that most people will become mill workers for chrissakes!

It is difficult for a third party to emerge in the US for many reasons including the electoral system. The last really successful party that we had (in my opinion) is the Progressive Party of the early 20th century. There are a lot of minimums that a new party has to meet in order to be considered in an election. Also, because the two parties don't form coalitions (like in countries with proportional representation) the majoritarian system makes it difficult for any real change to be made, especially social change.


As far as the Rep/Dem line it is very much the same as the Civil War era at least in the areas that existed during the Civil War. However, many growing (as in economic) southern states are becoming more liberal (this is liberal as in American liberalism, not economic).

I would say the average American is very ignorant about current events and politics. This is partly due to the education system. I mean, look at how popular Glenn Beck is.

I'm not sure what you mean by the last paragraph...

 

I don't need to provide evidence for things that you can look up for yourself, stop being a lazy jackass hiding behind excuses.

These things are considered to be common knowledge because you can easily find them in your local library or by typing in something remotely close on google.

Indonesia didn't "consider" Obama to have given up his natural born citizenship of America, he DID give it up. There is absolutely no doubt that he did. This isn't gray area Fickle, this is 100% black and white fact.

 

firstly, the term 'common knowledge' refers to knowledge actually held, not knowledge easily attainable, so that paragraph was douche-tastic.

BUT since you're unwilling to provide facts to back up your opinion i just did a little research.

everything that i read supports my earlier statement that there is no international law regarding citizenship, and most countries' (including the US') citizenship laws have no regard for any other countries' laws, so indonesian citizenship law is actually completely irrelevant to whether obama is an american citizen or not. if he is a citizen, then he is a natural born citizen as there is no evidence of any kind that ann dunham is not his biological mother. whether or not he was actually born in the US seems to be irrelevant. 'natural born citizen' has never been defined in US law, but it has been interpreted to mean 'a person who was born a citizen'. US citizenship law between 1952 and 1986 decreed that if a child was born overseas with one parent being a citizen of the US the child is also a citizen of the US. obama was born to an american citizen and thus (regardless of the location of his birth) became an american citizen at birth, or a 'natural born citizen'.

regarding obama 'revoking' his american citizenship when/if he became an indonesian citizen, the US has never had a policy preventing citizens from holding or attaining other citizenships. if obama had ever officially revoked US citizenship according to US law then there would be record of that. even if the indonesian government considered him a citizen of their state, and considered him (to their standards, by their laws) to have revoked his american citizenship in order to obtain indonesian citizenship, american law does not recognise that.

further, the US supreme court has stated that dual citizenship is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both. The mere fact he asserts the rights of one citizenship does not without more mean that he renounces the other," (Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717) (1952).

 

couldn't have said it better myself, and i back that statement as an expert

 

Ahoy Vig, thanx again for the reply

I was thinking that if BO was to really go against the grain, of the conventional decision making process, it would no doubt have a knock-on effect on his position and presidential career .. so if he was gonna chuck it all in for a radical approach it would have toreally be worth it .. not just something like a local NGO campaign, but something that would have a sustainable impact on not just the domestic, but also the international level

One Love!

 

Wow Ficks, now that's what I'm talking about ... doing some homework ... Nice ... The forum owes ya a gold star Sister

NFL, check it out, I',m not sure what your knowledge of research is, but what I am suspecting from your arguments in genral is that you make use of a lot of secondary sources. This is dangerous in terms of validity, it doesn't mean ya aint reading, it means that what you have as a kowledge basis is the interpretations of others.

Now no academic dismisses the use of secondary sources, but the favourable approach is to not rely on them ... rather use primary sources to get a foundation of your understanding, then add secondary sources that you know from your foundation / ground research are relevant

Other thing is that I see you tend to be easily influenced by conspiracy theories, well a good Brother of mine that passed on used to say that the biggest conspiracy theory is conspiracy theories ... think about it quickly, the scale and abbility of the control mechanisms of the state are no where near as big as peeps imagine them to be ...

... it's in the imagination that the powers that be have control, The System is no where near as heavy as what peeps make it out to be ... Fear is what keeps peeps in line, fear of what 'could' happen

Anyways ... sorry for not doing a spell check ... One Love!

 

This actually has absolutely nothing to do with US law. This has to do with Indonesian law first and foremost. I mean are you really that dumb? He was trying to go to school in Indonesia, not the fucking US. I don't know what you're wasting your time with on all of this US policy/law.
You're pretty ignorant to say "Indonesian citizenship law is actually completely irrelevant to whether obama is an american citizen or not."
You got one part of that right, he could still become an American citizen again but he would be naturalized not natural born. That isn't a fucking opinion either, that's just a simple fact but I can understand that you can't grasp that since you're stupid.

Indonesia did not provide for dual citizenship when Barry Soetoro wanted to go to school there. This means that they wouldn't let you become a citizen in the first instance unless you renounced any other citizenship you may of had. Therefore, Obama must have given up his natural born citizenship.

 

it has to do with US law because obama is the US president, not the indonesian one.

 

yea i'm done with you, obviously there's no getting through to you since you're a sheeple too.

 

dude LOL her homework was absolutely worthless. it had NO bearing on the topic.

read my other posts i've already explained why Barack is not a natural born citizen 100% undoubtedly.

and dude fuck you there are public records of all the things i've been saying which i've researched myself. i'm not trying to impress anyone nor do i care if you believe me.

 

can we talk about something else now? proving you wrong was a little bit entertaining, but now this is just going to turn into a shitfight. give us another conspiracy theory. shall we talk about 9/11?

 

conspiracy theory? LOL. proving me wrong? LOL. Wow you're SOO ignorant.

cold hard facts backed up by public records aren't conspiracy theories the last time I checked.

and don't you dare start with the 9/11 was done by Al Qaeda/Bin Laden/Muslims/Fillinthemiddleeasternblank bull shit.

 

they are conspiracy theories whether they're true or not natty, because they are theories about conspiracies. ie. the theory that there was/ is a conspiracy to promote a non-natural US citizen to the post of US president.

who did 9/11? educate me.

 

it's not a theory if it's a fact.