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I think there is a mental block within the theist mind. A protection mechanism among other things. Part of that mental block is the complete inability to see their own mental block. I suspect ulterior motives for his question and I doubt he's really interested in understanding the atheist mind. I also doubt he wants to accept the possibility that an atheist can fully understand how a theist mind operates.

 

I've often had that feeling about certain atheists. They believe in such concepts as "the theist mind" and no amount of contrary evidence or argument can shake them from that preconception. But I agree with you about the OP. His whole enterprise is a bit zany if he really want to find out about atheists. What he got was a small volunteer sample of respondents who gave complex answers which he then tried to boil down to a result which fit his initial hypothesis. Neither you nor I gave the answers he predicted.

 

As a matter of personal preference,what's WRONG with believing there may be an entity beyond a human's ability to perceive? After all,you take your coat because it MIGHT rain.
Apparently,there was 'nothing'-now it's postulated that 'nothing' was flawed. So,there WASN'T 'nothing'-there was a detectable flaw. And a flaw is a SOMETHING. Detected by what...or whom...is beyond our ken,but the results of that detection have led to us. You,me,the planet we live on,all it's interacting organisms,[of ANY size or mass],this physical cosmos. We humans constantly strive to find out what/when/how rather than just accept. But always,there are more questions than answers-and so shall it ever be.Not only do we question our findings,but we question HOW we discovered those findings and the validity or the research. So-we actually know no more now than we did 1000 years ago. You may thinks that's stupid at 1st reading...but can you build a canoe from a standing tree,skin an animal and cure the skin into clothing,make a sail,navigate by stars alone,build Stonehenge/Pyramids/castles,using the technology available then,use a bow-&-arrow to keep your family fed,etc etc. All we have today is DIFFERENT knowledge,not extra. After all,what real use to your everyday life is the knowledge that you get hit by billions of neutrons a second,or that pulsars are shrunken stars? BUT-if you are an entity beyond the human mind's ability to even decide whether you exist...maybe it DOES make perfect sense. Is there a God? I don't know. Note I didn't say a categorical yes or No. I just don't know. But SOMETHING drove those people back in earlier times to build those beautiful churches,while they themselves lived in hovels. The same something that gave us saints,martyrs and countless wars. The very same something that inspires everyday people to aspire to be the best they can be,no matter which religion they chose. Whatever that 'something' is,it exists. Not ONE of us hasn't at some time looked up at it.
Is it's name 'God'?
Is it merely ambient cosmic energy that minds have an ability to synergise with?
That's for YOU decide.
Because,as the man once said "By definition,what you believe,is true".

 

"Theist mind"? First time I heard of that term. Why are you against atheists beleiving in that(and -perhaps- why are you against theists believing that atheists have an "atheist mind")? What's the evidence against there being a "theist mind"(or "atheist mind")?

Could you state clearly your answer to my original(OP) questions again? And can you tell me what relaxx'x answers were. I'll accept a "slightly/kinda/a-little" as answers. I probably shouldn't have phrased the first question so "either/or"

 

I'm against believing in "theist minds" because I'm against stereotyping. Theists come in a variety of shapes and sizes, making it difficult to put them in a box the way Relaxx likes to do. Anyhow, since he asserted it, the burden is his to carry. To my knowledge, there is no evidence for a "theist mind" or an "atheist mind."

My answer to your question is :No, I don't find it odd that there is something instead of nothing. There obviously is something instead of nothing, just as the sky is blue, but I don't think it's odd because it's what we're used to. Relaxx's answer, as I understand it, is also that it's not odd, because there's no such thing as nothing. What does that tell you about us? That we think alike? That would be easy to disprove by examining our previous exchanges on this forum.

By the way, what is a "cold Greek"? Presumably you aren't talking about members of the fraternity or sorority systems, or the folks who are having all the debt trouble in Europe.

 

okf: By the way, what is a "cold Greek"?

It's "cool Greek"; referring to "cool-Greek thinking" [that is comfortable with- as Sagan says- the cosmos being all there was is and will be].

It was just an astonished [budding theist's] teenager's term for a felt feeling-- not to be too closely picked apart, as it's a personal poetic liscence that works for me-- that is still with me 30 years later.

To be quick and dirty, I saw "cool Greek" thinking as: a bunch of clean shaven ancient Greek philosophers in Athens standing around in [cool-white mediteranean] togas "sophisticating" and having no relationship with the hot old bearded goats in "Jerusalem"

 

Interesting. I kinda figured it was something like that. Saint Paul had a similar feeling about Greek philosophy (1 Corinthians1:18-25; 3:18-20), and the clash between Hellenistic and Judaic culture was major. I personally value both traditions. Reason is one of our distinguishing characteristics as an animal, and inquiry is a form of worship. There are atheists who might fit your "cool Greek" model: e.g., Richard Dawkins and Victor Stenger. But there are also plenty of down-to-earth humanists who justifiably regard Biblical literalism as an intellectual prison.

 

To clarify, I actually said yes, the existence of space is odd. I also tried to explain that IF there was a God, his existence would be a lot more odd than space.

 

Nothing IS something. Therefore, there has always been something. What there has been is mostly unknown. Conversly ,what there will be is likewise. Mostly. Big fun.

 

Nothing is something.
Nothing is everything.
Everything is nothing.

In order for their to be nothing then their must have been something.
Its perception. I view an object as something, I take that object away and their is nothing, but I know something was there because I saw it and it still exists, just not in my view. Therefore, nothing, does not exist, as there is always something.

The creation of the universe was a coincidence, but no accident.
It was not created by one deity but it was created by you. You are the creator of your own existence and being, you are god, everyone is god. How do you know that once you die, any of this, right now, will still exist?

Nothing is beautiful.
Everything is beautiful.

Atheist.

 

In order to imagine what 'nothing with out something' would be like, try imagining going to sleep and never waking up, the dark void that is unknown. Something cool might just happen.. well it did to me anyway.

 

"Nothingness" implies "Something"."Nothingness" is a human concept to describe a hypothetical state of there being no material reality.This is an actual impossibility that is in practice impossible for the human mind to comprehend.The only possible experience of "Nothingness" for the human being occurs when we die.However as there is no experience of this "Nothingness",because we are no longer there,this remains a groundless unknowable reality.What do we imagine when we try to make a mental image of "Nothingness"? Empty space?But this empty space is still a material phenomenon,so to speak.Once again "Nothingness" always remains beyond our grasp.

 

"Nothing is something" -WTF- You guys got some weird ideas about nothing. if nothing is something then it aint nothing.

Space IS something, it bends and warps and fluctuates. Space is the only real substance in the universe. There is only space and spatial fluctuations. All particles, all matter, all the energy in the universe are just moving spatial fluctuations. Spatial vibrations propagating through the fabric of space.

 

If you view my material body on a sub-atomic level,then I indeed consist largely of the empty space between sub-atomic particles.However the accumulation of these particles as a conglomeration of pure energy goes to create a holistic hole which is my body which is greater than the sum of it's parts.Therefore myself and the extended universe I experience is more than just fluctuating vibrations and wave-forms.All of this is before we start considering notions of spiritualtiy,the non-containment of the soul,reincarnation and morphic resonance,all of which complicates things considerably.For me personally,the closest thing I have experienced to "Nothingness" is the dissolution of the ego- personality achieved through transcendental meditation; a sense of cosmic bliss and impersonal yet infinite love.

 

I agree that life and the mind are greater states than the sum total of their parts. Like a mosaic, the pattern is what matters.

The pattern is what MATTER IS.

As far as my "soul", see definition below:

 

I have faith because I choose to.
I have religion because I choose to.
I have a soul because I choose to.

 

I'm with the cockney geezer [^]

if you choose to believe,then for you,that belief is true.

which makes 'nothing' a cerebral translation of a void and 'something' whatever you wish to perceive that something to be.

 

Sure, I'm going to go "choose to believe" really hard that I have gold bars in my basement.
I'm sure I do, I do have gold bars in my basement...

If you CHOOSE to believe a cow patty was a hat, would it stop others from THINKING you're crazy?

Please watch the "Faith Is Not A Virtue" Video.

All 'nothing' ever was, was an abstract concept.

 

relaxxx;your gold bars analogy doesn't work because it's physically provable to be either true or untrue.
You can have belief [or non-belief] only in things that are unprovable,as unprovable things require you to make a personal choice whether to believe/have faith in,or not.


.....and what's wrong with my cow-pat hat? People who don't wear one are CRAZY!