The Bible is true?

What do you mean ME, be detailed? I asked you for 3 examples of solid proof and you referred me to your site. You pick your best 3 examples from your site, or from any source, and I'll (when I get around to it) be glad to narrow my statements.

 

The bible says (in the 4th gospel, the only reliable one, IMO) that the Word is Jesus. Not the bible. When the bible was written, no one knew it was going to become the 'bible'.

 

Because of the new evidence that is coming in, it is now harder to believe that the stories of the bible did not happen. The facts appear to support the bibical accounts.
This is not church dogma, but archaeological facts. Yes, anytime I see the bottom of the Red sea covered with the remnants of the egyptian army and a burnt graniet mountain top, or a sealed east gate in Jerusalem that no one can open, when I discover hundereds of fullfilled prophecies in the bible, I do believe this is proof. And if anyone is honest with themselves they would consider this to be proof. Of coarse all archaeological discoveries must be twisted logic. Oh yeah, the bible flood never happened, but they are finding pillar lava on the top of mount ararat at 14,000 feet. Wonder who carried it up there?

 

RED SEA- The Egyptians would have carted their army, chariots and all across the Red Sea in boats, and surely many of them would have sunk over the years.


The story of the sea parting most likely evolved from the proven fact that at around the time the Jews left Egypt, there was a period where the Red Sea water level had dropped considerably due to a massive volcanic eruption in the region. There would have been an area where the Jews could have simply walked across. Even if the Romans didn't actually "chase" them, many years after the water had risen back closing off the passage, the stories that the Jewish tribes passed on verbally from generation to generation would easily have evolve into what was finally written down- God parted the water for them, then flooded the persuing Egyptians.

Any intelligent person should see that the acts of God stories in the Bible are all things of nature that the people at the time didn't understand.

As far as that closed gate "that can't be opened". That gate remains closed because of the proficy, not the other way around. It can be opened. The Christians there will not allow it to be opened.

Israel itself is a self fulfilling proficy.
When you say the Bible is true, I assume you mean it is the true word of God, not just that the stories are base on true events. Then you are saying that it is possible for God to speak to a human and tell him that it is OK to go into another peoples land, kill everyone including women and children and steal their homes. I refer to the book of Joshua.
That mentality is excactly why there is no peace in the middle east today,- religious self righteousness from all sides.

What gets me about you "religious" people is you get caught up in unimportant ideas. You know, I personally believe that the real Jesus was trying to move his people away from that dogmatic way of faith. Wisely, he didn't say "your religion sucks", he said " I bring forth a NEW covenant." Now I don't believe everything in the Bilble atributed to Jesus, but I do believe that.

Faith in our maker. Faith in a higher power. Feeling that we are part of that higher power (children if you will), yet being humble before it, that is all I require. A promise of heaven or threat of hell is meaningless to me.
We humans, have emerged from the earth with enough intelligence to wonder about our maker. Religions of the past help us track the path in which we attempted to understand our reason for being. There is a treasure of wisdom in all past religions, even the unwritten Native American beliefs. But to stay stuck in past mindsets is not wise at all. Learn from the past and move ahead. We will never achieve peace on earth if we don't.
I personally don't believe anyone can fully experience the joy of spiritual faith until they seperate it in their heart and mind from the shackles of religion.

 

i was reading an article in the BAR about a man who discovered a translation error. moses and his followers crossed a reed sea, not the Red Sea. did anyone else hear about that one?

 

Unless you are reading the bible in the language it was written, you don't have a clue what it really says. You're just going off someone else's translation and to take that literally just seems shortsighted to me.

 

well i know, which was the point of the question. has anyone heard any more about the red sea/reed sea discussion?

 

I totally agree... id on't believe in anything in the bible...

 

I am not arguing that God inspired these men but the whole of what you just said is so logically invalid that I don't think you said what you meant to say. The only thing that is confirmed is that someone contextually projected verses of the bible to current events. Which can also be done with just about any other book in the world so your theory actually becomes humorously incorrect.

 

Because im a little short on time could u answer one question for me. According to the bible God flooded the whole earth. Now most people may not believe that story. But if u were to go to the top of mount Ararat at the 14,000 foot level they have discovered pillar lava. Pillar lava can only form when a volcanic vent is submerged underwater. So my question is, how is it that they are finding pillar lava at 14,000 feet?

 

Well first of all where they are finding all of these chariot wheels,axels,and coarl encrusted dead mens bones is across a 10 mile stretch. No sunken ships from that time period have been discovered. They have also found two 17 foot pillars with the names of Moses, Pharaoh, death, and Solomon, on oppsite shores. Carved in rock near the pillars they have found the entire story of what happened there. The depth of water at the center of the ten mile stretch is one thousand feet deep. If the water was low at this time to allow passage, then the oceans of the world would all have to of been shy about 1000 feet. I'm pretty sure volcanic activity could not do that. Even if you could over look the sea droping a 1000 feet, and some how the Jews got across. It would still not explain how Pharaohs army is now laying at the bottom between the two 17 foot pillars incrusted in coral.

The closed East Gate.
You stated the gate is closed because the Christians will not allowed it to be opened. The problem with that is the Christians are not in control of the Gate.
The Jews are, and before the Jews controled it the moslems controled it. The Moslems know about the prophecy and tried to break it but failed on two occasions. See if they could of got through the gate it would of maid the Bible null and void by breaking the prophecy. The Bible stated not to worry the prophecy will not be broken. The first time the moslems tried to break through it and on the very day they tried the British took control of Jerusalem, around 1917. After the British gave up control of Jerusalem the moslems tried again to break down the gate but on the very day in 1967 the Jews took control of Jerusalem. The bible speaks with confidence that the gate will not be opened until Christ returns. And He alone will enter that gate on His way to the temple.

The only time I get stuck in the past is when I find something that is real and verifiable. And what is real and verifiable today, is the Bible.

There is a treasure of wisdom in all past religions?
According to the God of the bible, God is not the author of confusion. The problem with all past religions is each one of them opposes the other. Not one of them agreed.

The Bible teaches that the world is a wicked place, and there will never be peace untill Christ returns, from what I can see, the bible got that right.

Shackles of Religion
There is a big difference between religion and faith in Christ. Don't confuse the two. If I have learned anything from the past it is that the Bible is true and verifiable. You can depend on this book, believeing in anything that is not verifiable makes you a blind faith believer, and that is the worst kind of religion.

 

'Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and the LORD drove the sea back by a strong east wind all night and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.' Exodus 14:21

Could this most famous of all stories have any basis in fact?

The reed sea theory If you read the bible in the original Hebrew, the word 'red' is mistranslated. In the Hebrew bible Moses and his people cross the 'yam suph' - the Sea of Reeds.

Egyptologist David Rohl:

Now this is a strange story, I mean you can imagine trying to cross the Red Sea would be horrendously difficult but a Reed Sea is something quite different. This is marshland areas and this is probably what they crossed. Ancient Egyptian texts mention an area called Patchoufy: The Reeds. This is probably what they crossed.​

'So Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to its normal course when the morning appeared. And as the Egyptians fled into it, the LORD threw the Egyptians into the midst of the sea.' Exodus 14:27

How then do we account for the sea coming back and inundating the soldiers?

David Rohl:

If you're talking about a shallow reed swamp of maybe two or three metres maximum of water, this sort of thing is physically possible. In fact it's been witnessed within the last 100 years... The Egyptian army might not have been completely decimated. Many of the horses would have been killed, chariots would have been stuck in the mud.​

What about the famous image of a great canyon of water? Could this have any basis in reality?

Computer simulations of the Santorini eruption show that the collapse of the island would have triggered a mega-tsunami - a 600 foot wave travelling at 400 miles an hour.

Floyd McCoy, a tsunami expert says this was one of the largest waves in history and must have reached Egypt.

We find evidence, believe it or not, on the deep ocean floor. The tsunamis actually scraped across the bottom of the ocean floor in the Mediterranean and disturbed the sediment. We can find that sediment. That gives us some indication of the directions they went .. The computer model showed us waves radiating out all over the Mediterranean, reaching the Nile Delta.​

Could the tsunami have divided up the waters of the Reed Sea? If you look at ordinary waves you can see that just before they break, the water withdraws from the shore. A mega-tsunami would syphon billions of gallons of water - not just from the shore but from connecting rivers and lakes - creating dry land for as long as two hours.

Tsunami expert, Costas Synolakis:

We should think of a two-metre tsunami wave like a rapid change of the sea level by two metres along the coast, and that can can travel several kilometres inland. The destructive force of the wave could easily destroy an army.​

Is there any other evidence for this theory?

In 1994, the Philippine island of Mindoro was hit by a tsunami and an earthquake. The earthquake caused a massive crack in the bed of a lake about a mile inland. An eye-witness said he saw the water like a waterfall in the centre of the lake just go down. After a while, he could see the bottom of the lake, he said 'I thought I could even walk through.'

Then the tsunami arrived one mile further down the river and swept away a 6,000 ton barge lying on the shore. The mega-tsunami which hit the Nile delta was a thousand times more devastating than this one.



______________________________________________________________

Don't have time but I have much more to come!

 

The claim that the Red Sea really means Reed Sea is false. In first Kings 9:26 it states that King Solomon made his navy on the shore of the Red Sea. Red Sea in Hebrew is Yam Suph-which means Red Sea. If Yam Suph was the Reed Sea Solomons ships would still be stuck in the mud. The wording in first Kings 9:26 is the same as the wording found in Exodus 15:4 to 22. Also the recent discoveries of the two 17 foot granit pillars marking the actual crossing sight were believed to of been placed there by Solomon. Also the entire story of the crossing was discovered carved in stone near the pillars. Between the pillars is a distance of 10 miles across the sea. It is at this spot where they are finding the remains of Pharaoh's army. The Reed Sea nonsense was an old arguement debated for years. Todays recent archaeological descoveries have pretty much put that myth to rest, except for those who have not done their homework.

 

I see most of your "proof" comes from the fraud, Ron Wyatt-
Ron Wyatt Information Resources
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
Q. We had a man named Ron Wyatt who came to our city and claimed that he had discovered Noah's Ark and even the Ark of the Covenant? Is this for real?
A. Ron Wyatt, who has been telling his tales of discovering Noah's Ark, the chariots of Pharaoh, the pillars of Solomon, the true Mt. Sinai, the tomb of the Patriarchs, Sodom & Gomorrah, the place of Christ's crucifixion, and the Ark of the Covenant for many years, has been documented as an archaeological fraud. Both former "friends" as well as professional archaeologists in his own denomination (Seventh- Day Adventist) have published detailed refutations of all of his "discoveries." Rather than go into such details here we refer those interested in the documentation against Wyatt to request a free packet of papers by archaeologists in Wyatt's denomination from: Dr. David Merling, Associate Director & Curator, Institute of Archaeology, Horn Archaeological Museum, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, MI 49104-0990.
Yet, despite the fact that Wyatt has never submitted verifiable evidence for his claims to competent authorities, his books, video tapes and lectures in churches and at hotel meeting rooms (with the Prophecy Club) have won him a fervent following among less discerning Christians. Concerning the claims that most excite his audiences - his supposed discovery of Noah's Ark and the Ark of the Covenant - we may briefly state the following. His Noah's Ark site had been examined and long abandoned by Ark hunters and geologists as a natural formation before Wyatt and others came to the spot, and it has continued to be proven to be such (even though the Turks gave it credibility for the sake of tourism). There are eight other smaller formations like it in the area, so if this is Noah's Ark there must have been a fleet of them! As to the Ark of the Covenant, Wyatt says that he found it along with the Table of Shewbread, the Golden Altar of Incense, and the Menorah (a seven-branched candlelabra) which stood in the ancient Temple, in a cave inside the hill called "Gordon's Calvary" in eastern Jerusalem. Wyatt even says he scrapped blood off of the Mercy Seat of the Ark, had it analyzed and found it to have half the normal number of human chromosomes (therefore, the blood of the Virgin born Christ). He further says that the Ark was positioned in such a way so that when Christ was crucified His blood fell through a hole in the cliff above and landed on the Mercy Seat (thus fulfilling the atonement typified by this object). While such a story thrills audiences, "Gordon's Calvary" cannot be the place of Christ's crucifixion. It has no archaeological support, whereas the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, identified with Christ's crucifixion since the 4th century A.D. has much). "Gordon's Calvary" at the site of the Protestant "Garden Tomb" is part of a complex of First Temple tombs (about 600 years before Christ), but the New Testament says Jesus tomb was "newly hewn" ().Wyatt's "discoveries" have been rejected by real archaeologists not because, as Wyatt contends, they are jealous, or lack faith, but because his stories are unsubstantiated by facts. If facts are the basis for our faith (Christ actually died and rose again), then it is no lack of faith to demand of those with incredible claims that they be supported with evidence. The bottom line is: Wyatt has given us nothing to believe, so believe nothing he says!
Posted November 20, 1999
ARCHEOLOGY WITH RON WYATT: a personal account by Bernard Brandstater
Letter from Joe Zias
Dear Mr. Searcy
Mr. Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed excavation in Israel or Jerusalem. In order to excavate one must have at least a BA in archaeology which he does not possess despite his claims to the contrary. We are aware of his claims which border on the absurd as they have no scientific basis whatsoever nor have they ever been published in a professional journal. They fall into the category of trash which one finds in tabloids such as the National Enquirer, Sun etc. It's amazing that anyone would believe them. Furthermore, he has been throughly discredited by various Christian organizations such as Creation Research in Calif. For the latest on his "discoveries" I suggest going into the WWW (use Vista) someone called Tentmaker decided to do an expose of his various claims. Here you will find the truth, which is more amazing that his (RW) fictions.
Shalom
Joe Zias
Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology
Israel Antiquities Authority

Ron Wyatt has never received a license from the IAA to excavate here in Jerusalem. If he has then let him produce a license for his digs and surveys in Jerusalem, the Judean Desert, Mt. Sinai etc.
As for the chariot wheel, a bluff, produce it, on what was the dating made? Saw it in the video, it looks like a hoax. If it exists date it in a C-14 lab. As a amauter arch. which he claims to be he should know of many.
The Noah's ark discovery has been discredited. If it is true, and I saw the tape, show lab reports on the C-14 lab report.
I saw his video which is an embarrasment to the world of arch. The only people who can believe this junk is one who has never studied arch. As for the impt. archaeologists he mentions in his reports. I have never heard of one of them after 25 yrs in the profession. As for the James Irwin, what are his credentials regarding the world of Biblical Arch. Did he have a BA in the profession, he was conned into believing this as have many others who wish to believe rather than to know.
Lastly if RW can supply us with the lab report on the so called blood of Jesus along with a sample for independent testing which shows 24 chromosones I will then be led along the road to Damascus. Otherwise he is bluffing.
Joe Zias
Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology
Israel Antiquities Authority

ABR ELECTRONIC NEWSLETTER
Vol. 2, Issue 2 Circulation: 2675
February 15, 2002
http://www.christiananswers.net/abr
Ron Wyatt's Sodom
Rev. Gary Byers
Geologist Steve Austin of the Institute for Creation Research recently examined evidence from a site on the west side of the Dead Sea (at the foot of Masada), suggested by Ron Wyatt as the location of the destroyed Biblical city of Sodom. Austin is one of the few geologists to have critically examined evidence from this region in light of Wyatt's claims. The site was recently visited, and the geological features were photographed by Robert Brecka of Baltimore, MD. Austin examined BreckaÕs photos and also tested and evaluated samples from the area.
Having studied the geology of the local Lisan Marl in both Israel and Jordan, Austin noted the samples were typical of lake environments. Although not having specifically studied Wyatt's site, Austin has observed similar landforms and erosion features in the marl strata northeast of Masada. Referring to the Dead Sea basin as one of the world's best pull-apart basins, he pointed out its similarity to the Imperial Valley and Salton Sea of California in both tectonic structure and desert landforms.

After examining Brecka's photographs of the Lisan Marl on the west side of the Dead Sea, Austin noted the region's world-class examples of desert landforms. He described the Lisan Marl as ancient lake sediment from a former Dead Sea, which occupied the basin at a higher level just thousands of years ago at the time of the "Ice Age." The marl is very poorly consolidated and is composed of microscopic crystals of calcite (calcium carbonate) and gypsum (calcium sulfate with water). Austin identified piping tubes created by vertical fracturing, which then created sinkholes and cave-like structures. Although some have the appearance of human excavations, they are entirely of natural origin. Bridging, arches, rills, sapping structures and gully erosion were prominent in the region. Natural marl joints broke off in linear rectangular features that created narrow mesas (buttes) and pediments (gravel-covered mesas). Circular marl structures ("pinnacles" and "hodos") were also identified. Numerous erosional forms containing resistant strata (known as "elephant knees") were also observed in the marl formation.

Sulfur nodules, common throughout the site, were also examined and Austin suggested their presence was from the chemical alteration of gypsum within the strata. Earthquake-produced fluidization structures of beautiful swirls along with lamination forms and the phenomenon of desert varnish were also observed in the Lisan formations.
With all these features being common natural phenomenon and typical of dried up lake environments, Austin believed many were relic desert forms. He suggested they were created a couple of thousand years ago. Based on Brecka's photographs, Austin saw no reason to believe there was anything that was not a natural geological feature. While not totally ruling it out, he did not observe anything suggesting modification by human activity.
The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA) also does not believe there is any evidence for ancient artifacts or structures at the site. Yet, they were favorable to Brecka's interest and encouraged him to apply for an excavation permit. (Photographs and a fuller report of the geological features at this site, believed by Ron Wyatt to be the destroyed city of Sodom, will appear in a coming issue of ABR's quarterly magazine Bible and Spade.)
Tentmaker.org

 

Also check out-

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html

 

And check out-

http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html

Seems there is endless evidence against your man Ron Wyatt.

I suggest you stop looking for proof in God in a book. Have some real faith. I see all the proof I need in my daughters smile.

 

There is also a big difference between true and verifiable. The bible is 100% truth, without doubt, and support for faith is found on every page. A lot of things are verifiable, especially after the discoveries of Ron Wyatt, which sadly seem to have gone largely ignored.

But that's not to say that the truth of the bible lies within its verifiability. That is a dangerous statement to make, in regard to verifying with human means. It is only verifiable spiritually, and in that way, it is more convincing than any humanly discovered evidence could ever be!

Is not faith defined as "unquestioning belief that does not require proof or evidence"? That's the way I always understood it. When we look for verification of the bible, are we not rendering our faith imperfect?

I believe, without a doubt, the canonized bible has been altered to suit the political agendas of man, namely the Jews and then the Catholics. The Roman Empire needed help ruling the masses, so they adopted a policy of ignorance induced fearful compliance of the people. If you read some of the 'Fathers' papers on heresy, they do not say 'because the bible tells me so', or 'because Jesus said', they said 'because the Catholic authorities said so.' That, IMO, is a definite example of why blind faith believers do comprise the worst kind of religion.

BUT, blind faith believers are the ideal spirit-of-G-d seekers. If you adopt that attitude when reading the bible, much more can be gained from it. It is not a lawbook (unless you're Jewish, and still that's debatable), nor a history text book, or a practical genealogical record. It is a complete package, meant to be treated as such, and not dissected in the modern custom of today, which drains all meaning and message from it, like life blood. It is about symbolism, repeating patterns, and there are 2 or 3 storylines (that I have seen) that run through it, with the most amazing consistency of anything ever written. Unless we read it with our minds emptied of what we think we want to find in it, and be 'as little children' (think Dr. Seuss, how much can be learned there? A lot, if you're a little kid and don't wish to verify the existence of green eggs or yaks!), we are missing more than we're gaining.

I'm not saying that the things told of didn't happen, or that they did, or anything like that. What I'm saying is this: If we value the lesson, we must trust the teacher. Why do we have teachers? To tell us of those things we do not know. Do we feel compelled to prove every little thing they tell us? No, most of us take them at their word, figuring they've met qualifications of some kind, and then we go on, applying what we've learned. Now and then, we might find something wasn't quite as they said, but mostly their information was viable. Why not G-d's? He is far more wise, loving, and caring than the very best teacher that ever taught. So why not believe the bible, within the context of an illustrated lesson, with morals of the story and an acceptance that it is totally true, without questioning until application time?

There's nothing wrong with questioning, but ask the right questions! And don't seek to verify G-d in the records and accounts of mankind. That's a nonverbal demonstration of a lack of faith, and I don't see how it is otherwise. You'll never find the absolute truth unless you totally trust G-d to reveal it to you. I know this is a fact, from my own experience. All this I say from the perspective of having been in various stages of seeking and verifying, etc. But I always believed 100% that G-d would show me the truth if that's what I wanted.

From the changes in my life, inward and outward, I know that He has.

The original Hebrew and Greek usually use 'trust' instead of 'believe'.

Mark 1:15 *And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mark 9:23 *Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Mark 11:23 *For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Mark 11:24 *Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

John 3:12 *If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

John 5:44 *How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

John 5:47 *But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Acts 13:39 *And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Hebrews 11:6 *But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

P.S. Here's another good one-

http://www.christiananswers.net/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=Ron+Wyatt&restrict=abr%7Cq-abr%7Carchaeology&config=htdig&exclude=&format=long&sort=score&htsearch=1

 

They go largly ignored because Wyatt's only followers are those who are yearning for proof where there is none. Mr. Wyatt has been denounced again and again by REAL biblical archaeologists who rightly claim that Mr. Wyatt takes credibility away from all real research. I think the subject of biblical archaeology is fascinating and I find Mr. Wyatt's discreditation of the real work going on simply a crime. I for one am glad the work of this nut job has gone mostly ignored. Otherwise the entire body of real archaeological work would be brought into question...

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/wyatt.html

http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyatt.html

http://www.uhcg.org/Q&A/Ron-Wyatt.html

http://www.isitso.org/guide/wyattsuper.html

 

Quote Queenannie-
A lot of things are verifiable, especially after the discoveries of Ron Wyatt, which sadly seem to have gone largely ignored.


And there seems to be good reasons for Wyatt being ignored. Read my last posts and links.