The Bible, the Papacy and the Church

1) There is more to life then sex.

2) Jesus is not symbolized as a virgin, he is one.

3) Married men, may be ordained in some extreme cases. These men may and should procreate as the Bible tells us to. Two of my summer co-workers are the son and daughter of priests. One is the son of a Catholic Priest (Ukrainian) and the other Orthodox.

 

@ number one........yeah but still come on.......

 

Come on, what?

Say what you intend to say.

 

let the priest get laid.

 

This is ultimately the worst and least interesting issue to hammer the Church over.

there are far more important ones:
Mary/Saint worship/veneration
Papal/Apostolic authority
The Mass as a (really, the) Sacrifice
Real Presence in the Eucharist

 

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Russian_Orthodox/freak_church.jpg

Trev do you see what I see?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvks18jkFCE"]YouTube- Roman Catholic Pope Benedict XVI Blesses the Little Lambs - BibleOrTraditions (Revised)

 

1) That guy reads too much into the "wolfs in sheep's clothing". Does that mean that all people who wear wool (even Protestant pastors) are anti-Christs?

2)The Catholic Church is the number one charity world-wide.

3) There is a myth of Vatican wealth. It's operating budget is less than some of the major Universities in the US. All of the artwork is listed as assets of 1 euro for insurance purposes. It costs the Vatican thousands if not millions of dollars to keep the artwork in good condition. And still, they are the largest charity.

 

A wolf in sheep's clothing is any call to salvation that requires sacrifice or payment. They pull the wool over our eyes and charge us for the privilege. I desire mercy, not sacrifice.

 

Bill Holden: that's why we should never sacrifice ourselves in a War, just expect the mercy of the the friend in God.

 

Expectation is a call to sacrifice. Extend mercy to fulfill our true desire.

 

One of the most important teachings of Jesus.

 

Instructions to Timothy

1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

so is the pope going by demon doctrines?

 

Ummm, the men in the priesthood choose not to marry. Just like nuns and religious brothers and sisters choose not to marry and abstain from sex. And well, if you are faithful to the word of God, not marrying is the easiest way to not have sex because sex outside of marriage is a sin.

Fasting is a way we show God sorrow. Fasting is a way to remove something from our lives and to replace it with a deeper devotion to God. Lent has more than one purpose. Yes, we are to enter into Christ's suffering through "giving something up", and yes it mimics his 40 day trial being tempted by Satan in the wilderness...but it is much more. We can "give/offer up" our own time to feed the homeless. We can not watch any TV and spend all of that time in prayer normally watching the boob-tube.

The "forbid people to marry" also seems to point to the Gnostics who thought that the material world, our bodies, and sex were inherently evil. Can you think of any groups today that are very suspicious of the material world and using physical things in worship, distrust our bodies, and believe sex to be a dirty dirty thing?

 

If it is a "choice", then why aren't there more priests and nuns that choose to marry? It seems the truth is that the "choice" is to be a priest or marry but you can't do both.

And to be honest the Catholic priesthood does not have a very good record of showing that "not marrying is the easiest way to not have sex".

Although there is nothing wrong with fasting, on an individual basis, the scripture is saying that it should not be made a "command". Likewise if I wanted eat fish on Friday or not that is up to me but to make it a sin to eat meat on Friday, then that goes against what the Bible says.

Well, perhaps it's not a Catholic "teaching" but it seems that Catholics, as a group, seem to have more hangups about sex being a "dirty dirty thing" than most other religious groups.

I not sure why you would even bring up "distrust of our bodies" since, the practice of self flagellation, for religious purposes was utilized by some Christians throughout most of Christian history, especially in Catholic monasteries and convents.

As for using physical things in worship, if you are talking about using idols, then yes, that is forbidden in worship but physical things like the Bible are used all the time.

To me it seems the Catholic church has a bad record of following the teachings of the Bible, mainly because they follow the Pope and not what the Bible says.

 

or you can choose to be a lay single person, or a religious brother or sister. And in reality, we say choose, but there is really no choice: All of these things are vocations--callings from God that we follow because they are callings to be who we were created to be.

Since 1983, it has no longer been a requirement to abstain from meat on Fridays. This was put in place as a unifying way to encourage all Catholics to delve into the Passion weekly. (Catholics love the Passion). The exact rules pertaining what is to be done on Fridays (ordinary Fridays) is left to Bishops' Conferences. We are all still called to make some sort of penance of Fridays, out of even respect for the Death of our Lord.

Examples please. Catholics welcome sex as a beautiful thing. We just believe that the act of sex should result in conception. Going against that is using our bodies for our own self-gratification. Does that sound familiar? Aren't other sins really trying to fulfill our own selfish passions. Sex in and of itself isn't dirty: it is beautiful and God given.

mortification of the flesh isn't about distrusting our bodies.

Pope Paul VI stated:

“The necessity of mortification of the flesh stands clearly revealed if we consider the fragility of our nature, in which, since Adam’s sin, flesh and spirit have contrasting desires. This exercise of bodily mortification — far removed from any form of stoicism — does not imply a condemnation of the flesh which the Son of God deigned to assume. On the contrary, mortification aims at the 'liberation' of man.”

We are also called to "rejoice in our sufferings for [others'] sakes


By "others" who distrust the body, I mean those who deny or downplay the humanity of Christ...

No, I am talking about the use of incense, candles, crucifixes, and other sensual things. How can a God who is a Spirit being reveal himself to us--by the created world of course! It is through the world and our senses that we experience God.

 

I know that the "policy" has been changed but still what about the fact that it was a "sin" for so many years before that?

Yes, sex within the scriptural bounds of marriage is a beautiful thing but where is the scriptural backing for saying that it should result in conception?

Well, you know I don't downplay the humanity of the Christ, it's the deification of Jesus that I think is overboard.

But God didn't ask Christians to use "incense, candles, crucifixes, and other sensual things" to worship him. Although God did ask us to keep our worship clean and undefiled.

 

I think we got a situation here!!

 

Canon 1251
Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Canon Law still requires that Catholics not eat meat on Fridays!

Of course, most Episcopal Conferences have determined that, instead of abstaining from meat, Catholics may perform an act of penance of their choosing. But, do you ever remember to abstain from a particular food or do some other penance on Fridays? And, at any rate, the main rule is still to abstain from meat on Fridays, the performance of another penance instead is an optional alternative.

Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 - from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful ("fertile") and multiply. A husband and wife fulfill God's plan for marriage in the bringing forth of new life, for God is life itself.

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.
Gen. 38:11-26 - Judah, like Onan, also rejected God's command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.

I know. But lets leave that for another fight

Acts 19:11-12 - Paul's handkerchiefs healed the sick and those with unclean spirits. This is another example of physical things effecting physical and spiritual cures.

Exodus 30:34-37
And the Lord said to Moses: Take unto thee spices, stacte, and onycha, galbanum of sweet savour, and the clearest frankincense, all shall be of equal weight. And thou shalt make incense compounded by the work of the perfumer, well tempered together, and pure, and most worthy of sanctification. And when thou hast beaten all into very small powder, thou shalt set of it before the tabernacle of the testimony, in the place where I will appear to thee. Most holy shall this incense be unto you. You shall not make such a composition for your own uses, because it is holy to the Lord.

Apocalypse 8:3-4
And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer: and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints, upon the golden altar which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.

In terms of crucifixes, I think that the removal of Christ from the crosses (your issues with crosses notwithstanding) is a sign of the fear of those things physical--including the body of our Lord. I also think that it is an attempt to make Christianity "nicer".

 

It would seem that this would this fall under 1 Timothy 4:1-3 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.