The Dispposable Male

Haha. Sounds like you don't enjoy your job very much!

Well men and women are different. We are a sexually dimorphic species. There's nothing wrong with that, and even if there were, there's nothing we can do about it. It just is. When biology leaves off and culture takes over, that's where I take issue.

I totally agree that the most important point to address this from is in childhood. Boys are taught to be stoic, which is emotional illiteracy. The way that people experience empathy is that their brains mimic the experiences that they associate with the things they see or hear about other people experiencing. So if a person is not in touch with their own emotional expression, it's a barrier towards understanding and empathizing with the experiences of others. In general men in our society have rather low emotional intelligence, and I think that this is directly related to lessons learned in boyhood.

In addition to your anecdotal accounts, research shows that boys do have stricter gender roles than girls do. I don't remember the study off the top of my head, but if it interests you and I can look it up again for you.

Well we do have to accept dimorphism if we want to stay in touch with reality. But we also need to respect outliers.

This is one area that I disagree with you in. I believe that we're in the midst of a revolutionary change in gender dynamics. It's already been going on for decades. The old gender roles are simply not acceptable anymore. But we haven't found any suitable replacement, either. And the whole discussion is devolving into a war of the sexes that isn't really doing anybody any good anymore.

We're at a crisis point now, where more than half of first marriages end in divorce. I'm sure that I don't have to show you the statistics on the worse outcomes associated with single parenthood. It's really worrisome. We're in the midst of a cultural shift. If we don't find a suitable equilibrium soon, we're in for more rough times ahead.

 

It’s not very stimulating, but it’s easy to get recognition with a minimum amount of effort.

I concur.

It’s definitely something that starts forming in childhood and while parents can steer away from gender roles, society has a strong influence on a child’s identity.

I have a daughter and she’s about to be 4. Since she was a baby I’ve shopped in both the boys and girls clothes sections and the toy geared to one or the other. My mom who is Dominican (as am I) firmly believes in gender roles and will often call me to say things like “if you don’t pierce her ears she won’t know she’s a girl” or “what is that robot vest she was wearing in that picture? She’s going to be so confused”. My response is always “oh, I thought she knew she was a girl because she has a vagina.” It’s easier for me to give her access to all these things because she’s a girl and people (besides my mom) don’t generally comment on it. She’s been going to a daycare/preschool since she was 2 since we both work now and she sometimes comes home saying “only boys fight” or “only boys are strong” and “pink is for girls and blue is for boys”. She’s never heard this at home, not once, but she’s now convinced that’s how things are. My solution to this problem is usually explaining that while fighting is pretty stupid, both boys and girls can fight. And there are strong boys and girls, as there are weak girls and boys. And colors are just colors and nothing more. It works much better to be able to illustrate these things, so it will often require for me to show her a cartoon, movie, video game were the female is not a princess waiting to be saved and with the colors turn into nature “look at these pink flamingos, they’re all pink and there’s both boy and girls one”. She only becomes temporarily convinced and the next day I’ll hear her say something similar again. She’s young; I’m hoping when she starts thinking more for herself, she will also realize how silly gender roles are.

I have a stepson too, who is 7 ½ and he definitely doesn’t have as much freedom as his sister. His dad is far from the typical male, he’s more girlish than I am. He spends less time with us and while we don’t care what he wants to play with or do because we don’t really have any expectations of what he should be as a male, his main household does. The funny thing is that his mom is definitely tomboyish. Not image wise, but in the way she behaves and what her interests are (cars, guns). So again, we have that double standard. When I find him playing with my daughters dolls, he always has an excuse of why he has them and my reactions always is “its ok. You can play with them”, but I feel like he has been told many times that “those are for girls” so there’s a feeling of shame.
I find what you pointed out about emotional intelligence interesting, because I’ve often pondered about that. I think it’s strange how men are groomed from birth to show no emotion because it is a sign of weakness, probably more by their mothers than their fathers and you have the very same women complaining about how their husbands don’t showcase their feelings. There’s a strange disconnect there that I can’t make sense of. I also think it’s that push for “you have to be strong and you can’t cry and you can’t show that you’re hurt” that makes men be more prone to violence.

Of course as a parent I have expectations, but the expectations are the same for both sexes.

I do think the changes are happening and have been happening for a while. I just don’t know if I’ll see things change in fully. I feel like most people I know, are perpetuating those gender roles.

I find myself in a relationship where there has always been a complete lack of gender roles. Maybe not always complete, but it has certainly vanished more over time. We’re equal in every way, nobody is taking care of the other, but we care for each other. We have our things we’re better at. I enjoy the not fun so fun part of parenting more, he likes cleaning. We both work the same. I make more money haha, but I don’t think like most of my friends seem to think that “the man” (it almost seems like a mythical figure) should be making more money. We have our own interest and we give each other our space. We don’t even sleep in the same bed, if we want to spend time together we do, when we don’t, we don’t. We’re far from an idyllic relationship and have many problems, but I feel like we’re in a more real, adult place now, than we were 5 years ago. And even though I know this works for me and I could never be with a typical guy and in a typical relationship, the thought always creeps in that I should have what the girls I know have because that’s what’s “normal”, even though it would probably feel suffocate me to death. I blame all romantic comedies!

 

It's sad that your step son has to hide and make excuses for his urge to play caretaker. Children mimic the actions of adults and other children. It's not only how they gain skills. It's also how they learn which roles are acceptable and which aren't. Dolls are a great prop for teaching about compassion. But in this case the lesson your step son is learning is that compassion has no place in the male gender role.

There's the old adage, you can't love someone else until you've learned to love yourself. I think it goes the other way too. You can't love yourself until you've learned how to love others. The same skills of emotional intelligence that allow you to be a good caretaker for other people are also the ones you need to take good care of yourself.

 

I know that when it comes to society the expectations that have been pushed on us have only been reinforced stronger through the generations. My husband is 26 years older than me and told me how society was in his generation and has explained how it has changed overtime. Im 22 and have noticed even in the few years i have been alive more and more. It used to be men were relied on to bring in the food and shelter and women were relied on to maintain the household and take care of the children simply because in the olden days it was easier.. Women do not have the same kind of physical strength as men and cannot do some of the harder jobs or the longer hours. It seems to me that with all of the technological advances that is making some of the work easier women are now able to do more in that aspect. Still dont do well with long hours (not saying it cant be done ive done it but im not doing it anymore because im aware of my physical limitations. and im prego right now, so ill stay home and clean and cook) so men are stronger in thier stamina and physical strength and women are more talented in breastfeeding and giving birth, and raising the children come naturally to a mother anyway because when the fetus is growing inside of us some of the babys brain connects with the mamas brain and they share a connection from it. yay! i think part of the problem that is going on right now with misandry and gender confusion is al of the feminist extremists pushing the idea and belief that men are worthless anyway. which really sucks. ive heard of too many storys of men being attacked by these radicals and thinking that our children dont see it or feel it growing up is illogical. its a subconcous manipulation that forces the thoughts in boys that they are worthless and disposible and forces girls to believe that they are superior and are meant to take advantage of men in the system because anytime they hear about a man through the media or society the general belief is that they are abusive and angry and vicous and really stupid. i dont know how long it will take society to reverse these negative affects but if it doesnt change soon we will trully be living in a dark world. im ranting..... need coffee.....too early.....goodmorning:daisy:

 

I disagree with you about the roots of male disposability. It's been a thing as far back as we have reliable records, and quite likely has biological roots that are culturally reinforced. I don't blame feminism for this problem. But I do note that feminists not only fail to address the issue, but often actively obstruct those who do.

As far as the part in bold, that is an unneeded stereotype that is very hurtful to me in my life. Men are every bit as capable of being good caretakers as women are. The skills needed to do a good job raising children in this day and age are far removed from the hardwired biology that women have. They are learned skills, and men are just as capable of learning them as women.

 

Hi

I understand what you mean and I think the reason for this interesting behavior lies in the genetic programming that humans have.

The urge to reproduce is genetic. The urge to preserve the "object" of reproduction stems from this.
Men are genetically programmed to objectify women because this is a beneficial behavior and it makes reproduction easier.

Woman have longer "shelf life" because the children needs to be raised. Men are not required in the later stages.

Men are information carriers.
Women are : information carriers, incubator units and care takers.

on the sidenote:
I think that because men have less things to do and less commands to fulfill, the rate of "free thinkers" in men are higher. And I think that men are able to think more clearly.

But woman are smarter (better problem solvers) because the tasks forced on her are harder.

There is no equality and never will be but everyone gets something back in return!

 

Please read this link.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...cover-childrens-cells-living-in-mothers-brain

I am not attacking the males ability to be a caretaker. I have met several single fathers who were very good at taking care of their children. But a man does not have a uterus and can not carry a child for 9 months. A mother does continue to carry the babys brain cells in her own body after the child is born.

I do agree the beginings of human nature have been apart of how we behave culturally. Culturally thousands of years ago men were required to defend the family and die if neccesary simply because logically to keep the human race surviving you would need a baby maker and children are the future. Now culturally it is not acceptable to be a male according to feminism in which they state a man is an incomplete woman. feminism is a cult and have enhanced the thought that males are disposable and not required because a woman can do whatever they can do. Which is a highly toxic way of thinking. The feminism movement beats males into submission while this concept of thinking is a media induced manipulation it argues with a womans natural instinct to nurture a family and be protected by man. Men will always on average be able to do things that woman cannot. Just like a woman will be the only person to carry and grow the child.

Men are better at thinking logically and catagorizing. Woman think with their emotions and how it will affect the flow of energy. Men and women are equal just in different ways. :2thumbsup:

 

Jumpin into this thread I guess... just wanna say, I'm a female and I'd jump in front of both my husband and my son without a moment's hesitation or thought. My husband would probably be trying to do the same though.

 

I would catch a bullet for my husband although he is always telling me he'd rather he got hurt. I personally believe that if there was a zombie situation and we had to choose who would live to take care of our children I would stay behind and hold the zombies at bay so my husband could get my children to safety. Why.... because my husband is stronger and would be a better provider in such situations. He would be able to defend the children in ways that I could not.

 

My love, in such situation I would do my best to create a Michael Bay solution and firebomb the zombies thus clearing a path to save us all.

 

Are you guys in the same house both on computers or what?

Haha.... you are cute together.

and yea, I was thinkin the same thing... try to create a situation where EVERYONE lives and gets away and defeats the zombies.

 

Zombies!!!!!! Atleast zombies can't talk back when you shoot them. Just bam and down they go. Do you know zombies are possible due to a rabies strain that spreads in animals like the flu?

 

Men are not disposable?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiTaDS_X6CU"]41: Misandry - Women Focus - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A"]Misandry - Men Don't Exist - YouTube

 

there has been no draft in this country since women assumed combat roles? Are you aware that's been all of ten months?

 

I'm thin, so not much of a shield, if somebody starts shooting, I'm gonna hide behind a fat feminist.

Zombie situation,
If you run around wearing hot pants and a crop top in the middle of a bitey zombie apocalypse, you deserve to die.
Full biker leathers, gloves and boots for me with a full face helmet ....... bite on that suckers?

 

You do understand that feminism isn't a world mainstream culture.
It's only white women in the western world who believe in feminism.
And that's about 5% of the world population.

Bad luck for the men daft enough to live in those countries ........ plenty of better places for men to live ...... but too few have the courage to move.

 

You do understand that he was talking about feminist extremism and that there are different types/waves of feminism?
I highly doubt only white women in the western world care about basic things like women voting or getting an education.

So when you say it is only white women in the western world who believe in feminism you're kind of wrong, imo.
I am sure non-western women you are talking about are different to western, and maybe respect and value traditional female/male roles more, and all that.
But that doesn't mean they don't believe in, or support feminism in a way.

 

Great advice. I think I'll take it.

 

Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality (not superiority) to men. I don't see how anyone could oppose that.

 

From a white woman living in the western world, who only knows other white women in the western world.

You might actually try living in another country or culture before you tell me I'm kind of wrong.
American and Australian people in particular don't have much of a world view ..... it's a little better in Europe, but not much.
Most white folk seem to know everything about the world without ever bothering to go there, maybe god told them what's the right way to live.
But that can't be right because Feminism is a spinoff from Marxism ..... and socialists don't believe in god.