The ethics of being rich

money is the root of all evil in the world, a revolution is coming i can smell it

 

I concur. Radical change, radical balance is closer, what with people rising , waking up finally.... Its only a matter of time

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sheeit.come on now - life has never been about the accumulation of money , but the experiences you learn and grow from ; for what you Become is the only thing you get to take when you die

And if you believe that the average american makes over $50,000 then you are the perfect citizen for the times - gullible.

 

most rich ppl got ego problems.. I wish I had money at the moment but I like the life im livin now.. ( broken, and beat up.) happiness is not related to money. happiness comes from within. You can buy fancy shit, and big pool and music equipment to have fun and all the dope and bitches but...( ..fuck.. I changed my mind... I wanna be rich!! )
there is something that is worth more than money... Equality!!

There was lesson I learned when I saw a wannabe model girl (i met her, dumb bitch) and my favorite heroin junkie (shooting up, sitting in pee) next to each other in the red light district. Does not matter where you came from.. We are all the same. Nobody is better or worse than the other!

If I had money I might make the mistake of looking down on ppl who dont. And thats something I never wanna experience.

 

It is said one cannot buy happiness.... but I'd sure like to give it a try.

 

If somebody works hard and makes alot of money because of it, they can do whatever they want. Plus up here in Canada once you reach a certain income level you get taxed almost 50%

What needs to be stopped is corporations that bring in billions of dollars and do nothing to help the same people they rip that money off of. Some corporate bank CEO's make upwards of 20 mil per year to sit there and give a signature to the ideas that their staff come up with. And then complain about their yearly earnings being down, so they raise fees and find new ways to fuck their customers over rather than looking at what might be wrong internally.

 

I don't have a definitive opinion on the ethics of wealth. It's a topic that I enjoy thinking about.

Due to a job I used to have, I interacted with many wealthy people--think fortune 500 CEO. Something that struck me about them was their general detachment from the lives and struggles of their lower and middle class counterparts. Many of them have never bought a gallon of milk in their lives, never mind them having a basic knowledge of what a week's worth of groceries cost.

I was working once, and overheard a conversation that I feel sums up their attitude:

This is a group of people who I know to be billionaires, and know to have been born billionaires, too:

They were sitting in a circle, complaining about the President. One person said: "Obama is trying to give more money to school lunch programs. Can you believe it? That man is ridiculous. Free lunch? What do they need free lunch for...I never got free lunch."

I kept working quietly, but it took a lot of self control not to say something. At the time, I couldn't believe that comment. Here is a person whose family has been fabulously wealthy for generations. Who never wanted for anything material. I never got free lunch.

How does one begin to combat such self-centered detachment? Without forcing these people to donate some of their money? Is forcing them to do so ethical? It doesn't seem that way to me. But what to do?

 

YouFreeMe - I can totally relate to the things you said about CEOs. I used to work for a PM of a relatively small hedgefund ($350 mn in assets under management). Ive also met the aloof type characters you described, and then ones like the family operated Scotts Miracle Grow. Their management team (owner and son) are so extremely humble and down to earth. Anyway, I was actually paid $50k annually in 2008 as EA to the portfolio manager - which included tasks like his grocery shopping.

Bloomberg just left mayoral office in NYC. Did you know his salary was $1.00 per annum? He is independently wealthy, and self made. Granted his parents were upper middle class, but they weren't multi billionaires like he is.

The thing I find commendable - he spent over $650 million of his own money during his 12 year tenure. The funds went to several programs and operational overhead within his office: for example he paid his own travel, and spent $88k buying a modest lunch for his employees every day for 12 years.

My personal income exceeds the median earnings value Meagain listed from 2011; and it does not account for the benefits cash equivalent I receive. For example, my employer covers 75% of my medical insurance cost which is $7200 annually (or $600 and change monthly). I live comfortably, and we save nearly as much as we spend per month (savings figure supplemented by my fiancés salary). With that said, I'm looking for toward our future which includes children and eventually buying a home. I work smart, and hard for my own grandchildren - not for the neighbors kids. And for what its worth, when I take into account my own salary I am not considered "rich" by current standards, slightly above average -yes. Our household does earn more than $100k per year. One third of my salary goes to our savings accounts, while my fiancés entire income is immediately deposited. At some point we will be able to buy our dream home outright.

I also find it hard to have sympathy for people who demand things without working for them - they have an immense sense of entitlement. Conversely, my boss is 74 years old and still teaching at University and running a medical practice. He has never stopped working and trying to improve himself and usefulness.

 

Tax shelters.

 

LSD...:coffee:

( I'm only half serious):hat:

 

Don't hold your breath. The Tea Party is still going strong, Occupy movement has fizzled, corporate Superpacs have taken over politics at the national level and are moving into state and local arenas. Where are the people rising? Unless you mean business corporations who are now recognized by the Supreme Court as people?

Yes this is an ethical problem of enormous magnitude, at least according to Jesus and the Biblical prophets. The only person I know who has really done much to challenge it is Pope Francis, God bless him! We'll see how far that goes.

 

well there's nothing good, bad or indifferent about it. its just a condition, like the weather or something. its a tremendous convenience in a context that measures things that way, and its lack, correspondingly becomes an equal but opposite inconvenience.

the problem of course, is when the game of making everything have to be about money, threatens the very survival of many, and i'm not saying this is automatic or has to be, but when it does, to the benefit of relatively few, or the very few.

creating a situation that imperils the well being of others implies a certain degree of responsibility toward the result. generally imperiling the survival of others, when it becomes that extreme, and again its not wealth itself doing that, but certain attitudes which promote and result in concentration of wealth, this is crossing the line into morally reprehansible territory. and we see that with super power governments going in and making war on less powerful countries when they try to protect their environments and their people.

this is where the problem comes in, and concentration of wealth really does become a problem for society and the stability of a relatively safe personal and social environment.

which raises the question: is really great wealth (and/or the political power that often accompanies it) amassed honestly? can it even be at all in a completely honest manor? and finally, even if it can, is this the more common situation, or the very least common one?

religious leaders have always been distrustful of great concentrations of wealth (unless, in an unfortunate, though relatively small number of cases, it was their own), and perhaps rightfully so.

the reasons for this being both good and bad.

so its really not that simple a question, this problem of wealth.

what is straight forward is that power and authority carry with them proportionate responsibility. the more power is conscentrated, the more responsibility comes with that power, to use it wisely for the bennifit and not the detriment of all.

unfortunately wealth, and the accumulation of wealth, does not automatically bring with it, the wisedom to do so, nor to understand the need and responsibility to do so. often, tragically, the exact opposite.

is there a solution? i believe there are many solutions. whole spectrums of them. marx persued one line of possible solution, and i don't rate its success very highly, but i do believe it was well and honorably motivated and the problem it attempted to address remains certainly real.

procustus isnt the answer, but cultural perspectives and perceptions are integral to solving the problem. we need to get over and leave behind this unfounded assumption of associating wealth with merit of any kind. good or bad.

reducing the advantage to be gained by the accumulation of wealth is also a good, positive and desirable thing. and finaly, yes, imposing responsibility, where it may lack the will or ability to impose itself. essentially by that i mean, wealth needs to cease being a get out of anything free card.

the days of investing authority in individuals need to be past and behind us once and for all, preferably made so in the most painless and least harmful ways possible.

there is indeed to much harm being caused, by and for, extreme concentrations of wealth. and another problem for societies is when you have extreme gaps between the majority and the wealthy few, this is a sure fire formula for instability.

 

No. The advertising is only what you hope for as something sinister to deceive the rich into the old ideas of consumer manipulation.:sunny:

 

I think there should be a maximum wage. It should be illegal to earn over 200k.

Nobody will suffer because they're only earning $200k... and plus, if there's a salary cap then the prices for all goods will drop so that anyone could potentially afford them by saving.

It wouldn't matter if someone were only making $9000/year if there were programs providing health care, housing, power, water, heat, food and education. If you don't have to worry about any of that, then you have all of that money just for yourself. You would feel richer than you do making more money just to watch all of those things suck it from you.

Give people everything they need to survive, and the opportunities to get more-- if they want luxuries, recognition, respect, etc... then they'll need to work at it, but they'll also have every opportunity to do so. Stop forcing people to pay for their own training just so the corporations can pick and choose whoever they want and toss the rest into debt hell. Just having free education would do wonders for our society... AT LEAST adjust tuition rates to account for the industry demand, so people aren't going into debt for nothing... and so that there's a bigger incentive for kids to go into things that society actually needs, instead of being ushered into some redundant arts program because it makes money for the university.

As it stands, all that is happening is it's growing impossible for anyone to get even the basics and the rich are wasting their money on shit that they don't even need. It's insane... we need an intervention.

I think it would also be ideal if everyone was afforded their own piece of land... they can do whatever they want with it, but if they pollute it, they can't just buy a different piece of land. If they fuck it up, then they're the ones who have to live there. I'm sure that you'd see a lot less pollution if CEOs actually had to deal with the consequences of their actions, and live in their own toxic hellholes instead of just buying a clean piece of land somewhere far away.

But of course, all of this is asking wayyy too much.

 

I think restrictions are pointless. There are ways around everything..

Personally, if I end up making a lot of cash that's cool. I'll set myself up with a nice place out in the country where I can live off grid and sustain myself.. I'll have my guilty pleasures such as a kickass art studio, and if I'm really making it, I'll stick in a recording studio too.

However, the rest of my money will flow back into the arteries and oxygenate the rest of humanity. I don't want to be a clot that contributes to this global economic stroke.. I support capitalism, but I don't support the mindless accumulation of capital. Society is sick, and needs some economic warfarin.. I intend to be a little dosage of that warfarin, no matter how much money I end up making.

 

I don't think the issue is "being rich".
Its how you got rich.
And what you do with the money you have control over.

Some very rich people live very frugal lives. And some normal people live very wasteful live.

But yes, the rich have a responsility to the poor, the middle income and everyone in between. Just like all members of a society/community SHOULD have a responsibility.

The sad part is, too many people fight over "their" proportion of a cake.
Without really thinking about joining together to make a much bigger, better cake...

If people actually chose to work together instead of against each other, pretty much every problem in the World could be solved.

Whether a true society or community actually exists and hasn't fragmented beyond recognition might be another issue.

 

it is not unethical to have good fortune.
but it is unethical, to reduce the opportunities of others, in order to enable oneself to imagine, some sort of earned merit, attached to it.
not merely unethical, but immoral in every sense of the word.

honest effort improves the odds of fortune, but nothing guarantees it, nor its lack.

wealth is a great convenience to posses, and a damnable inconvenience to lack, but has no direct relation to merit of any kind, good or bad.

is there an obligation that comes with it?

i would say this, the same obligation upon all of us,
to concern ourselves with the kind of world our priorities statistically create,
is not dimenished by good fortune,
but rather, becomes all the more pressing a reality and concern,
the more economic impact one happens to wield.