The Law Is The Law

well, it is definitely a prayer...

the opening stanza is..

while the storm clouds gather far across the sea
let us swear allegience to a land that's free
let us all be grateful for a land so fair
as we raise our voices in a solemn prayer

God bless America,
etc etc

it is sung in all schools i've attended here in the US(all public)

No one can be forced to participate in anything involving religion. While i think school sponsered prayer shouldnt be a part of the school day, i see absolutely no problem with allowing religious pictures in the class. We dont need to remove all bits of religion from the school.

How we have gone from... " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," to schools banning nativities is beyond me.

 

OMG!

I have opened a can of worms here. I wasn't so much bringing up the religious issue as the two facedness of the government. In one breath they say you can't do anything based on any religion then they say you have to have religious holidays off or get paid extra. It just seems so two faced to me that religion is only good to them when they get something out of it no matter what reglion you believe in.

Love & OMG
EnonEmouse

 

December 25th is the first day after the solstice that is noticeably longer, and therefore has been a day to celebrate the 'rebirth of the sun'....hint hint, since long before Yeshua Ben Joseph is said to have lived.

 

Good information Sera. Thank you.

 

I pray, a lot. That does not mean I am Christian. I believe firmly in the miraculous power of prayer, no matter one's faith.

 

I don't know...Almost everyone, christian or not, in America celebrates these holidays. And as you can see, christians and pagains share a lot of holidays. So there is nothing wrong with pleasing the crowd.

Now, if people were forced to celebrate the religious holiday, that's another thing. But giving people days off, that doesn't make them have to celebrate.

 

Can you picture someone on their deathbed saying, " ya know, i wish i had worked a couple more hours."

 

Here's the thing. Christians want the days off, and most of the USA is Christian. Also, many Jewish holidays overlap the Christian ones, so now all the Jews want these days off too. People have a right to their religions, and many religions say not to work on holy days. It would be wrong to force people to work on their holy days. This has more to do with personal rights of religion than the government forcing us to take days off (oh no, not that!). Too many people demand these days off to have it any other way. I agree with what Sera said in her post above. No one is being forced to celebrate by getting the day off.

At the same time, we cant have our courts putting the Ten Commandments out on the wall, because I don't want to be judged by the laws of a foreign religion. Yeah, some of the "Thou Shalt Nots" are ok, but I don't like that I'm supposed to worship one god, for example; I don't worship any god and don't think that should be held against me. I want to be judged by the Constitution and nothing else. And I don't want our tax money going towards schools that impose religion on all the kids; schools are government organizations and have no place in preaching religion. Leave that to the (many) churches.

 

Yes but the Government can't have it both ways is what I am getting at. What the hell is a Nativity Scene hurting anyone and as long as you do not force people to do things they don't want to do why can't people who want to do it. IT just seems the government is using relgion as and when it suits them. Declare holidays because of it but not let anyone do anything else with it. What as an alotted time for prayer at a school hurting anyone unless the child is forced to pray to a certain god. 5 minutes quiet time at the start of a day never hurt anyone religious or not. Nobody says you have to pray. If the government want to use religious days as holidays it should let school, and things have their own say on if they wish to display a nativity scene or not. I can't see a buddist monistary (sp) having one but if they wanted to they should have that right. I think what I mean is there should be free choice on this subject not hvae things dictated like in France. Please tell me why they can't wear aturban to school what harm is that. they are proud of their religion which is every persons right. Just DO NOT force it on others!


Love & Rights
EnonEmouse

 

Christmas is the only religious federal holiday. Are we not showing preference to christians?

 

Well to even encourage prayer is not something that a school should be doing. So 5 minutes to "pray" to whatever is still encourging prayer. And anyone who want a nativity scene in their yard can have one. Government funded schools or orginizations are a different story.

Parents can always send their children to a religious school of their choice if they want religion to be involved in their schooling. But public schools funded by the gov't should be free of that.

Many public schools have religious clubs that meet (ours had a prayer by the flagpole every wednesday morning, before school) where students can choose to participate. How is this not fair? I think a setup like this is plenty fair to everyone involved in the public school system.

You gotta remember, schools are funded by the public, not by just one religion. Schools get their "say" by the public. No one school can, or should, decide if or what religion they represent.

And I have to say, if a school decided to stat presenting, endorsing, or celebrating pagan, muslim, or any other religious ideas and prayers other than christianity, people would have a HUGE fit. And christians would be right in there with them. So lets not be hypocritical. People don't want to see public schools with pagan symbols out in their yard. So lets leave out the christian ones too.


And megara does bring up a good point though. Since christmas is the only religious federal holiday, are we not showing preference to christians? Good question. Seems like we may be.

 

i really dont understand the harm of the nativity scene at school..as long as religions are allowed to decorate for their holidays, government isnt endorsing one religion..so it shouldnt be a problem.

edit: it is wrong that NYC schools are not allowed to have a nativity scene, but can have a menorah and islamic crescent displayed...whatever judge decided that needs to be kicked out of america

 

That is a very good point I agree 100% with it what is wrong with everyone being able to celebrate at the school then everyone get to understand other beliefs and not be pig headed about something other then their own religion.

But the many point I am trying to make is the government can't use religion when it suits them. If they ban prayer and they ban nativity scenes and things they are being hypocrits (sp) when they say you must have Christmas and Easter off or get paid more.

Love & Opinions
EnonEmouse

 

Thing is, you don't hear people much other than christians wanting their religion back in the schools.

Fact of the matter is, the people who complaining about prayer, or nativities being taken out of school would shit their pants to see a pagan pentacle sitting out in the school yard.

And many schools do teach about other religions, in the form of some sort of "history of religion" class, or something similar. Plus there are always religious clubs students can join, or start if necessary.

And as far as getting what holidays off, businesses have more say over that then the gov't. Any holidays you get off is up to individual employers.

And Easter isn't a federal holiday; and federal holidays simply means that those are the holidays that federal workers get it off. For other businesses it is up to their discresion, not the government's.

And christmas(or some form of it) is celebrated by the general population here and all over the world. It is not just a christian holiday. Many religions and beliefs have their own form of christmas.

 

because it is christians who are having their rights revoked mostly by the anti christian liberties union.

Its alright to have a menorah in nyc schools, but wrong for a nativity..yeah thats somehow fair.

Urm, what religions exactly are these that have christmas? Judaism surely doesnt, Islam surely doesnt, Hinduism surely doesnt..those are the 3 outside of christianity.

Regardless, the point of what he is saying is, if we are trying to remove church from state..we need to remove christmas as a federal holiday...christmas is a religious holiday, it doesnt matter WHOSE religion it is, its still religious and according to the common reading of the constitution, should not be a federal holiday.

 

Many civilizations before us had winter celebrations. Many cultures here and around the world celebrate winter today. http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm

I don't know how celebrating the winter, and getting presents from Santa makes it religious. Christmas is hardly a religious holiday in our culture anymore. And who cares what days people get off. Just because they have a day off of work doesn't mean they have to participate in the holiday if they don't want to. It is a far cry than forcing a kid to sit in a classroom and take part in some sort of "prayer time"

But if people want to make a big stink about christmas, then whatever, I can do without the holiday in order to not have my child bombarded with christianity in school.

 

winter and christmas are different things.

I dont see how many religions celebrating holidays in december somehow makes them CHRISTMAS.

Everyone associates christmas with christianity.

But again, you are missing the point. It is about being CONSISTANT. I dont want christmas removed from a federal holiday, i dont particularly CARE about prayer in school. But we cant even decorate for holidays? Come on. We're a civilized nation and we can deal with having to look at a nativity. We are picking and chosing what we want. Well, thats not true. Certain judges are picking and deciding what they deem acceptable. That is wrong.


Is looking at a nativity going to scar a kid? We are raising kids who are unable to cope with diversity. God forbid someone has to look at a menorah or a nativity. If this harms a kid, hurts him, or causes him in some way to be unable to cope, then there is issues far greater a nativity on the lawn of a school.

 

Nobody seemed to get what I was meaning behind the original post. It was to state how bloody two faced the governmebt was. Nothing really to do with the reglious side of it at all!!!

Love & Sadness
EnonEmouse

 

Well I will definitely agree with you there. But it is diffucult trying to keep all of the public happy.

It just sounded to me like you were using it as an excuse to advocate the return of prayer into schools (or getting rid of christmas, or something).

Sorry if I misunderstood!

 

Heck I am not even a Christian I just thought it was so sad the government used religion as a tool when they wanted to and only then.

Love & Disbelief
EnonEmouse