The Law Is The Law

In a world that is so spiritually unstable one would think that you can turn to the people who fill their minds with the word of the Bible for some sort of stability. After all, regardless of your religious point of view a majority of humanity can agree that this book teaches strong moral values and the importance of being compassionate. However when I recieved an e-mail like the one I am sending you my outlook on some of these so called "spiritual" people was altered greatly. All the writing in black is the original e-mail I recieved and everything in red is my analysis of it. The intent of the letter is to get you thinking, but the message that is being conveyed is one of the most sacreligious, and baneful things I have ever read.
In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.



Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.



America is a nation that is made up of cultural, religious, and intellectual diversity. As a country we have never dismissed God from our schools, government nor our lives. We have dismissed certain religious practices due to the fact that everyone in this country has different points of views when it comes to spirituality. There is no doubt in my mind that our country was based on Puritan beliefs, but the reality of the situation is the concept of equality has vastly changed since the time America was founded. No longer does a majority of our country share the same religious beliefs as it did in historic America. We have progressed greatly, and the diversity in this country has also increased making it unfair to include the practice of religion in our public school system, along with our government. Both political canidates who are running in this upcomming election have strong religious beliefs which play a major role in how they will make their decisions for this country. But it is their job as the President of the United States of America to make sure that everyone in this country is treated equally, and since everyone does not share the same religious beliefs it makes it unfair to include religious practice in schools and politics. But if you feel a need to include prayer and other religious practices in your child's education there are thousands and thousands of religious schools throughout the country where your kids are welcome. Due to the fact that there's religious schools in America the statement above about "telling God to get out of schools" can easily be discredited.


And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"




This is very interesting to me because according to the Bible humanity has tested God's patience since Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden. If "he" was really going to turn his back on us why would "he" allow us to crucify Jesus? Didn't Jesus die for our sins? That seems to be a big contradiction to everything Christianity stands for. But not only does the Bible disprove the notion that God has turned his back on us, but history has to. Though there is no arguement that September 11th was a terrible tragedy if we look back on history we can find similar violence in nearly every generation. Let's look at leaders like Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin they took the lives of millions of innocent people. Did God turn his back on us then when we weren't telling him "to get out of our schools, to get of our government, and to get out of our lives?" How about when Mousolinni also took numerous innocent lives? And we can even look back to the time when Cain killed his brother Able without a second thought. After all the innocent lives that have been taken, is it the Christian thing to do to blame God? There's a thing called responsibility and maybe it hasn't crossed our minds, but the only one to blame is ourselves. God didn't take those innocent lives, a human did.

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.


No, it started in the Old testament. I'm sure you've read the story I've listed above about Cain and Able, and I'm sure your familiar with the story of Jesus's crucifixtion. Those acts of violence occured far before we said no to prayer in schools. And an even more thought provoking question is: would God punish a girl who was opposed to prayer in public schools by brutally murdering her? That isn't the God I've been taught about. I think the real source of why murderers have become more predominant in our society can be closely related to the fact that we put these vicious, blood thirsty killers on the cover of Time and Newsweek Magazine allowing the media to celebrate their evil in their own perverted way. I think the most important aspect of the fact that Jesus hangs murdered, and half-naked from millions of our necks is the reality of what we did to him, and why we did it. Was it because it's human nature to be violent, or do we blame God?

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself.. And we said OK.



Yes, the Bible does say all of this. As does any great author who lived through periods of war and violence at its worst. What does post-modernism convey to the readers who acknowledge this literary movement? I'll make it simple, it says "Thou shall not kill".


Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.


Psychology has proven that spanking children damages their personalities and their self-esteem. And not only Dr. Spock promoted this idea, but thousands of psychologists have, and currently do. They have also proven that numerous different experiences and chemical imbalances can cause a person to commit suicide. But at the time that Dr. Spock's son killed himself this research was from complete and to this day it still is, making the option of pharmaceuticals that fix the imbalance of chemicals in the brain (which cause many people to commit suicide) unavailable to his son. Do we know why his son killed himself? No, we don't and we never will. But we do know it wasn't caused by his opposition to spank his son. And another thing is if we really look at how Jesus was killed we can clearly see that he was beaten numerous times, and the act of spanking renacts this. Think about it we punished Jesus for being balsphemous by beating him, and we punish children for misbehaving by beating them. Isn't that ironic? After all the promotion of spanking is clearly violent and that may be another contributing factor to the fact that our society as a whole is violent. I guess to some it makes sense to oppose violence by promoting it, but to me it doesn't.


Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.




Yes, we are asking ourselves these questions, and we've been asking these questions since the first murder took place. The thing is Anne Graham is looking at this from the wrong point of view. The reality is that every murderer in history has suffered from some psychological problem whether its caused by chemical imbalances or personal experiences there is always something that causes these people to kill another human being. And a big part of this has to do with how the media and the consumer celebrates violence on a daily basis. If we didn't have a disposition to be violent then wars and murder wouldn't exist. These things have been a part of human life since humans have existed, and God is not to blame. To say he turned his back on us and to construct an e-mail like this is just as sinful as the people who have killed other people. It's easy to run from reality and pretend that it's the fault of people who oppose religion in the public school system and the government, but the real culprit is the corporate media along with every human who commited these horrible acts. The promotion of violence in this country is displayed on every TV, magazine, and newspaper that reaches the human eye turning the murderers and violent criminals into icons of a violent culture. Charles Manson, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, and any other seriel killer will forever control the human mind numbing it to the reality that these people are truely evil. And this produces more murderers on a daily basis. But let's blame God because reality is too intense.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."




Or maybe it has more to do with movies like the Terminator, or television shows like the daily news. Or maybe it has to do with our human disposition. Personally I lean more towards the idea that we celebrate death icons too much in our society. All the kids that get pushed around can freely worship Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and every day as we pray to our crucifixes we can worship the notion that our savior was murdered by people like you and me. I'm a spiritualist rather than a traditional Christian, but I strongly support Christian morals and values because they will help us change the world from the death cult it is to place it should be. But by blaming God for all the terrible things that happen we discredit those values and promote violence for the future.

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.


It's funny how God is portrayed as the bad guy when it's humans killing other humans. Did God turn his back on us or did he give us free will, and we abused our privaledge?


Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.




Depends on the message you want people to understand. I hope as much as you do that this message gets sent to every person in the United States, and in the world. People need to understand the culture we live in, and maybe this will help them. Unfortunatly your message helps no one and it is far from profound and insightful. That could be part of the reason why this message hasn't spread like wildfire.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.


I was under the impression that lewd, crude, vulgar, and obscene articles were suppressed in school just as much as religion is. And I was also under the impression that the discussion of God and articles pertaining to God pass freely through cyberspace too. If they didn't how could I have stumbled upon this e-mail?


Are you laughing?





Nope, I'm disgusted.




Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.



Once again you're wrong. I want the world to see this.



Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

or you can think for yourself and do as you please...

 

I don't know why you keep pressing this point with me, like I don't understand or something. Did you not read my post pages back where I said:

 

no, i missed the bit about the nativity. I'm sorry.

 

But it isn't being two faced! Enonemouse, listen: It is one thing for Christians to want to have prayer imposed and supported by the government in schools. That's the government "making a law respecting the establishment of religion" because it's the government supporting Christianity (I highly doubt they'd be having teachers lead in Islamic prayer throughout the day).

It is a WHOLE OTHER THING for the majority of the population to want Christmas off of work. It's kind of like how a whole lot of people wanted the weekends off of work and a 40 hour work week. There was a mass movement, and the government complied. Is this the government "making a law respecting the establishment of laziness" or is it just the gov't doing what they have to to keep peace and avoid a revolution?

 

its CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

I think you have a better case that it is unconstitutional to have christmas as a holiday as CONGRESS established it as a holiday, i.e., they established and endorsed a religion than you do with prayer in school.

 

Congress is the arm of the government that establishes laws, so it is in effect the same thing as saying "government."

And clearly having the government institution of schools supporting Christian prayer may not be establishing a law, but it goes against the spirit of that clause. Although there is no line in the constitution saying "There is a seperation of religion and state," it is a part of our American heretige; this is well known and supported by most people.

Why is having school-led prayer so vital to people anyways? Why isn't it enough that a child can pray on their own in a nondisruptive way?

 

its really not

It comes from a letter thomas jefferson wrote...which is why the supreme court invokes that clause in so many things. The question is...is praying in school establishing a religoin? I dont think so, but i dont think prayer in school is a good thing. The problem is, we are going nuts with this separation of church and state thing and taking it to mean things it wasnt intended to(one established religion).

i'm not sure, but i'm not a very religious person.

 

I don't know what is too far, but I personally get really sick of hearing stuff like "Now you can't pray at school" to complain, because anyone can still pray if they want to.

This is the crap that annoys me. It is just not true, not even close to true. Anyone can pray if they want, anyone can trust god if they want. Everyone has that right. It isn't being taken away. It never was taken away.

And you know damn well that the author of this email would have a fit if he drove up to his son's school and saw a group of kids preforming the Salaah or a group of kids errecting a statue of Buddah on the lawn. He doesn't want children to have the freedom of prayer in school...becuase they already do, and that's not good enough for him. He wants kids to be forced to sit through christian prayers at assemblies and homeroom.

 

I give up! I never wrote the e-mail I only posted it because I felt the government again is being assholes. Like someone said (I can't rememeber who) I wish everyone could put up things for their beliefs but there are just too many narrow minded people. I do not care if they pray in school and I sure as heck could careless about the holidays either I was just making the point that the government is so two faced it is unbelieveable. So basically my point was the government sucks nothing to do with religion as a whole.

Love & Disbelief
EnonEmouse

 

I never emplied you wrote the email, hence me saying "the author of this email". It is actually a popular email in christian circles, and I had seen it before.

And if this has nothing to do with religion at all, why is it you posted a factually wrong christian email, advocating the return of prayer to schools as your example?

 

I never looked at it from the religion point of view until it was pointed it out in a post to be honest. Yes it talks about religion but I never thought that. It was sent to me by a Pagen friend who is the same as me very anti government so I guess that clouded my judgement. I never meant I gave up on you just on the fact that I fucked up really.


Love & Apologies
EnonEmouse

 

I'm pretty sure that Independence Day is when we celebrate our freedom, and has no affiliation with religion whatsoever. How can you say that holidays such as Christmas and Easter do not have any religious significance behind them? I bet if you polled the population, they would say there is a religious meaning by a landslide. And what about Good Friday? Are you saying this is not a religious holiday?? Give me a break.

 

Yes, and directly after writing the letter, it is a historical fact that Jefferson attended Church in the capitol building (or some other gov. building)

Sorry if I'm wrong about the building... but I think it is accurate.

 

It is establishing a religion: which prayers are you going to say? You know the Christians (who seem hell bent on putting their religion in everyone's face) wouldn't be happy with some watered down interfaith prayer. The advocates of prayer in school want Christian prayer in schools. That is a religion, in case you weren't aware.

What I don't get is why these Christians (not all, of course!) want to mix with the government. These are often the same people who dislike the Catholics. But anyone can see what mixing religion and government has done to the Catholic religion. It politicized it, something that was supposed to get us beyond petty politics and bullshit and bring the light to our lives is getting mired down in the mud. Obviously not every Catholic experiences that, just the religion in general. The church my parents go to is always telling people how to vote (they hand out a voter's guide). This was the reason the protestant revolution occurred in the first place, at least in large part.

 

Oh, well I didn't mean anything bad about it, I was just hoping that you understood how your thread got off on a religious tangent.

SO lets talk about hipocracy in the gov't.

I think it is entirely hipocritical that our country makes more money than any other country in the world, yet we can't seem to give all of our citizens healthcare. Eurpoe, Canada, Australia, Japan, etc...all provide healthcare for their citizens.

 

We pay for health care in Canada. I would pay $88 a month to have the basic health care. If I want the super dooper health care it is even more. At the minute I am not working so I have no health care either. I have just moved back here from the UK and there the healthcare system is great everyone has healthcare even the homeless.

But I have to agree the governments of both our countries are a load of crap the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the gap gets bigger. I can't believe it.

Love & Understanding
EnonEmouse