The national libertarians are not Nazis but…

it was a really interesting article...

 

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Do you have a clue why?


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Yes.

Let's talk about it.

 

You saying that just sent the most horrible chill down my spine...

Obama has BIG plans for TONS of Early Childhood Development education...

"1984" ring any bells?

 

I read as much as I could tolerate.
I get your idea and the comparisons (as you present them).

If it was not about Rat per se...leave his name out of it.

As for the comparisons...we know what the Nazis did at the begining, in the middle and at the end.
It happens to be 2008, we have history books about that time period.
That is why I say, why make half comparisons.

I have no idea.
We all have political bents...does that mean we will follow the path that most resembles them?
Good grief no, not really.
If you want to talk about somebody do it honestly and openly.
If you don't, like I said, leave their name out of it.

 

Wow, you have some serious issues.

 

Goddamn, some people take shit so seriously.

THE INTERNET IS REAL!!!1!!!

 

I can't see any burning of effigies of Balbus, can you?

 

I tried to... eh? I reported the post Balbus, because starting a thread with the intent purpose of talking about another poster is NOT a form of political discourse and cause for political discussion. Which is why I felt that it was inappropriate.

I'm not agreeing with doing this, because it's not okay to do it and it goes against the spirit and purpose of this forum.

I said that I felt like Pressed_rat's execution on some of his views isn't perfect, and in my opinion his view on offering no real solution but to 'inform the masses' is flawed - but I don't think it's necessary to create a thread about him and talk about him, instead of talking with him about the issues.

JMO.

 

and yet we all keep bumping this thing.

 

I don't understand this thread.

Are we supposed to be comparing posters to behaving like Nazis? Are we dissecting Nazi views or Libertarian views?

EDIT: I reported this thread again.

I don't see how this is relevant to the spirit of discussing politics when someone is purposefully targeted as having similar views as a Nazi or 'Nazism'. It's uncalled for and a personal attack against Pressed_rat's character.

 

What I would like to know is, what exactly are "national libertarians" anyway? A Google search results in only about five pages of returns, and coincidentally the first two links under the returns for that particular search (in quotes) are from Balbus on these forums.

 

"Nationalistic Libertarians" or even "Libertarian Nationalism" makes more sense and heralds a few more results.
There deffinitly is evidence out there about the notion of being a nationalist and and also being a Liberterian.
Perhaps Balbus did not say "Nationalistic" merely "National", just to link his ideas up with the same key words.
I must admit Balbus' term is a little awkward and slighty convinient.

 

Maryjohn

Yes. Let's talk about it.

First I don’t know what article you wish to discuss

Second I don’t know why you thought it of interest.

But please start another thread.

 

Odon

I said “However I’m sorry to say you don’t seem to have read the posts”

And your reply is - I read as much as I could tolerate.

In other words you didn’t read it, you don’t actually know what was said? But even through you didn’t read it you feel you can give a full and detailed criticism of it?


Why?

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I get your idea and the comparisons (as you present them).

If it was not about Rat per se...leave his name out of it.

Are you saying he isn’t a good example of what I was saying?

Or are you saying that Marx can’t be called a Communist, and instead we all have to say ‘a 19th century German philosopher was a Communist’?

Are you saying that in political discussion we can never use quotes or mention an individual’s viewpoint?

I mean in most cases we aren’t even using our real names.

All I do is call Rat an example of a person with right wing libertarian views now you and he can argue that he isn’t and I’d really like that discussion.

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As for the comparisons...we know what the Nazis did at the begining, in the middle and at the end.

It happens to be 2008, we have history books about that time period.
That is why I say, why make half comparisons.

Well this makes it very clear you haven’t actually read my posts, I’M NOT SAYING RAT AND NATIONALISTIC LIBERTARIANS ARE NAZIS.

They are not Nazis

So how can I be saying they are?

Please go back and read the post, it makes ‘informed’ debate possible.

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I asked - And if someone only half believes in such a thing do you think they would oppose or support an anti-left political witch hunt?

And you reply with this - I have no idea.

Then why not try to think about it, is this how you treat all questions would you give this reply in a exam or on a job application, do you think it would get you a pass or a job?


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We all have political bents...does that mean we will follow the path that most resembles them?

What does that mean?

I have left wing views and what I do politically will be coloured by those opinions, are you saying that even though I have left wing views I could then very happily go and vote for the British National Party?

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Good grief no, not really.
If you want to talk about somebody do it honestly and openly.
If you don't, like I said, leave their name out of it.

I’ve been trying to debate with Rat “honestly and openly” for many years know, on the whole he doesn’t do open and honest. That’s why I’ve increasingly come to use him as an example, although I continue to ask questions directly of him.


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Aristartle

I tried to... eh? I reported the post Balbus, because starting a thread with the intent purpose of talking about another poster is NOT a form of political discourse and cause for political discussion. Which is why I felt that it was inappropriate.

Again you clearly didn’t read the post – the post was NOT about Rat per se it was based on a comment by Depoisoned.

Is that clear?

Depoisoned said he had at first thought that Rat was a Nazis (because he used such things as the supposed international Zionist banker conspiracy)

Got that?

But like me Depoisoned realised Rat wasn’t a Nazis, I was agreeing with Depoisoned in saying Rat was not a Nazis.

Am I going too fast for you?

I then went on to explain that Rat fitted more closely a Nationalistic Libertarian


(an aside, thanks Odon that maybe a better term)

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I'm not agreeing with doing this, because it's not okay to do it and it goes against the spirit and purpose of this forum.

And just what is the “the spirit and purpose of this forum” ?

I thought it was about debating politics.

All you’ve done so far is try and misrepresent what i've said and close down any discussion of what I did say.

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I said that I felt like Pressed_rat's execution on some of his views isn't perfect, and in my opinion his view on offering no real solution but to 'inform the masses' is flawed - but I don't think it's necessary to create a thread about him and talk about him, instead of talking with him about the issues.

Again you seem to be reading into something that isn’t there; I use him as an example to an understanding of rat-like, right wing libertarian views.

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I don't understand this thread.

Then try, rather than just trying to close it down, a good start would be to go back and actually read what’s said rather than what you think was said.

Then if you are unsure of something you can ask for clarification.

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Are we supposed to be comparing posters to behaving like Nazis? Are we dissecting Nazi views or Libertarian views?

OH Hell Aris, please read the god damned post and you would know – I wasn’t dissecting Nazi views because as I said right wing libertarians are not Nazis.

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EDIT: I reported this thread again.

Why?

Because you haven’t read what’s been said and are therefore making assumptions as to what was said rather than entering into a debate?

Why are you so desperate to close down this thread and any actual real debate?

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I don't see how this is relevant to the spirit of discussing politics when someone is purposefully targeted as having similar views as a Nazi or 'Nazism'. It's uncalled for and a personal attack against Pressed_rat's character.

And you base these statements on what – it can’t be on what I said because I don’t call Rat a Nazi, I actually say Rat isn’t a Nazi I do think he is a right wing libertarian.

You claim to be a socialist would it be a personal attack on you to call you a socialist? What if you claimed to not be a socialist but virtually all the things you promoted were socialist, would calling you a socialist be a personal attack on you.

Is calling Ron Paul a right wing libertarian a personal attack?

Is calling Hitler a National Socialist a personal attack?

Is calling Marx a communist a personal attack?

Was calling Saddam a bloody handed dictator a personal attack?

Is calling Bush a warmonger a personal attack?

Is calling Cheney a liar a personal attack?

Is calling the actions of the US government despicable being anti-American?

If you forbid all talk of other people’s views or actions you effectively stop all political debate.

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Thing is no one is actually refuting what I said in –

Why do the national libertarians keep reminding me of the Nazis?
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=104835

Or that many of the things are associated with Rat.

The thing was that because I had studied that particular bit of history (the rise of Hitler) that was the comparison that struck me first back in 2005, but since then I've also compare it to the US right wing anti-communist movement of the mid to late 20th century, for example the comparison with Rats ideas and those of say the John Birch Society are very close.

But actual debate seems to furthest from nearly all of your minds, you seem to prefer to try and close it down.

Why is that?


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I'm sorry. I'm afraid to express and refute some of the claims that you've made Balbus, and develop them in full.

Someone has cautioned me that I run the risk of getting banned if I argue with you.

I think it's unfair to associate Pressed_rat with Nazism. And I don't think the Politics Forum is a place to discuss the political ideologies of other fellow members by associating a negative stigma to their persona when they deny the charges. It is bad form to ascribe any poster as leaning towards an extreme form of ideology. I realize that you made a mistake in this by calling Pressed_rat as being similar to a Nazi, but perhaps it would go over a little better if you apologized to having offended him publicly, rather than starting a new post about it all up again.

I just find it rather tactless on your part - and you expect us all to swallow and listen to what you have to say about this, request that we debate and discuss with you, when you yourself fail to extend your sincerity towards an avid fellow member in a mistake?

I mean, pressed_rat has withdrawn himself from posting anything useful in this thread upon a reasonable term: you've got him pegged and pinned down. Only it's not even a correct assumption.

It's unfair to persist in badgering posters, trolling, and repeatedly posting the same assailing accusations at a targeted individual - which is what you openly do Balbus, to Matt.

How many times have you posted a link to a thread you made about "National Libertarians" in this thread alone? I consider that style of argument as troll-like behaviour.

I don't feel like gangin' up on Libertarians or anyone who falls under that umbrella by comparing them to Nazis.

Hell, we can compare Gandhi to Nazis for the sake of argumentation if you'd like. I mean, would it be perfectly okay if I compared your own views, Balbus to the indoctrination of Nazism?

No, because it's not part of the spirit of this forum to dissect your views Balbus, then link them up neatly to the ideology of Nazism. That's jut not what this forum is about.

I just don't find that this particular style and method of discourse has a place in this forum. I'm not hard of hearing, and I read the posts in here, Balbus. I just happen to disagree with your aims. That's all.

 

This is a new thread? I guess I didn't look close enough, I had assumed that this was the existing thread but with all our posts deleted out of it. While that assumption kept me from responding (because the thought of deleting all our replies ticked me off), it didn't keep me from reading.

Ari, if you get banned - I promise to eat nothing but rice cakes and tofu bologna for 12 weeks. And that, will piss me off.

 

Free Aristartle!!!