The Psychedelic Revolution

double post, oops

 

No more then you do apparently. Hence it seems fair to share.

I included that as a footnote at the end because it seemed moot to point out to you that your perspective, that men can handle responsibility better, is -not- a universal one. It is yours, and likely arises from your identification with men. Mine is opposite.

 

People is people, whether they are male or female isn't that much of a big deal. I know assholes that are men and assholes that are women.

 

Desos, everything just has to be able to fit into some convenient category for you doesn't it?

Problem is everything is a continuum of shades of grey. Black and White distinctions only exist within your mind.

 

Continuation of my thought:

I think this likely holds true for many things that each of us -know- to be true. Each of our personal revelations. Especially those of an existential or spiritual matter. We have a moment of gnosis, where we have some sort of grand understanding. Even in that moment, we only see a piece of the truth, but it is so much more than we see other times that we are struck dumb by it. Lost in wonder at this revelation of something grander then our day to day understanding.

And so much are we struck by it that when we return to ordinary thinking, we try to bring pieces back. We feel that failing to do so would be a terrible waste of such a precious gift. We hope that by doing so, some amount of that feeling will come with us, will stay with us. But in doing so, we all too often lose too much of it. We have ideas and words and images where -knowing- once was. And in ordinary consciousness such ideas meld and mix with other ideas and lose their truth. There is still value in such half-breed concepts. If nothing else they remind us again and again and stave away despair.

But I think error arises when we think of such half-breed ideas, born of tiny fractions of true knowledge already watered down in insight and bred with all levels of other idea, Error arises when we think of such as being Truth itself. When we mistake our placeholders and luckcharms, our symbols of divine knowledge for such knowledge itself. When we confuse ourselves and others with such ideas. When we present such as guidelines for others, as wisdom, as true morality, or as rules to live by. Even more when we defend such ideas as being the Truth, or pressure others to try to live by them. When we judge others harshly for not living up to our own half-truths. When we use such as guidelines by which to judge for others, against their will, what is best for them. This, to me, seems like error.

Similar to me, is when we rail against the world in general for not following to the pattern we have devised from such ideas. These ideas are born out of some slim understanding of what is, and yet once mixed with other notions are then used to judge or condemn what is? It's like misinterpreting physics and using it as a code by which to condemn sound for not traveling as fast as light.

I think I might come across some times i conversations like this like I am doing the same. Arrogantly stating that -I- know the answers, because I have had revelations. I've had life experiences. I know the way it is, because I've devoted my entire adult life to the path of the Shaman. The mad mystic. I've fasted for weeks, lived in isolation for months, I've done more psychedelics then nearly anyone I've ever met. I've thought and meditated and searched and prayed and worked this stuff out, like srsly.

And I've had these grand revelations, and I have all this understanding, and I know so much. Right?

Well, I still don't know anything. And I know that. I think sometimes I come across like I think I do, and I think part of that is me getting defensive, and some is indulging in egotism. Defensiveness against other people's revelations, it's weird. But when others come across like they think they -know-, like they think they have it all figured out... it bothers me. I'm not certain entirely why. It could be jealousy. It could be fear, because such people are potentially dangerous. It may be incredulity, since there are so many and they all contradict one another. It might simply be sheer egotism. Like you know shit, Hah! Probably a mix of things.

I have my way. I have my own revelations. I have insights and lessons I can share, and ideas of things that -might- work for you. I do not have the Truth. If believing you do gives you a sense of peace, if that is what makes the troubles of your heart bearable, then believe.

But I would ask you, gently, if you would walk with care on that path. Such belief is dangerous, as it can blind you. Even if it -is- the Truth, the real truth, it can blind you. Blind you to the real people around you. Blind you to what those people need, right now, to what they desire. To the fact that in your struggle to pursue your goals, you have the potential to harm them. There is nothing more dangerous then a zealot, doing what they believe to be Good.

 

Oh, I know. I have some stereotype ideas in my head that disagree, but I know they are stereotypes, and try not to let them affect my judgment of individuals. And to reduce their affect on my overall actions. Hence why I said that though on some level I feel the world might be better if men had no say, I don't think that's what we should actually -do-.

 

Day after day alone on the hill
The man with the foolish grin
is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him
They can see that he's just a fool
And he never gives an answer

But the fool on the hill
sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

Well on the way, his head in a cloud
The man of a thousand voices
is talking perfectly loud
But nobody ever hears him
Or the sound he appears to make
And he never seems to notice

But the fool on the hill
sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round


And nobody seems to like him
they can tell what he wants to do
And he never shows his feelings

But the fool on the hill
sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

Oh, round, round, round, round, round
And he never listen to them
He knows that they're the fools
But they don't like him

The fool on the hill
sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

Oh, and round, and round, and round, and round, and round
oh



It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

 

What is your definition of the psychedlic revolution? A bunch of people taking drugs and coming to profound realizations? People now-a-days are simply doing this without the drugs... Why do you find lucy a requirement to fulfillment?

 

To know that you don't know, and to know that you can't know, that is peace of mind.

 

i'd say it's better to speak what you believe with conviction, even if you are wrong. as long as you have enough humility to come to terms with the fact that you are wrong, and respect other's opinions as well. but above all a healthy respect for reason. silence accomplishes nothing, although there are certain situations where discretion is the better part of valor.

i may be guilty of not doing this sometimes, but hey... i try.

imagine if you had traveled miles down a path and you realised that it was the wrong one. the amount of humility that it takes to admit that you were going down the wrong path and turn back from all the time and energy that you have invested is not commonly found.

 

Sweet, I'mmmmm freee to do what I wanttt at anyy ollddd timeee.

 

Yes but when you grow from believing something to knowing it, the need to affirm it through others is no longer there.
Most often we proclaim our beliefs to others in order to receive an affirmation of said beliefs.
True wisdom and enlightenment comes when you are secure in your beliefs to the point that telling others or not telling others are of the same importance.
As has often been said in these discussions, each person will learn in their own time and their own path, therefore the wise man (or woman) realizes this and knows that whether they speak or remain silent ultimately makes no difference in the others journey.

That is one reason why I say to you to keep searching, that you haven't gotten to that point yet, because it is so important to you to bounce your ideas/beliefs off of others for validation. You reveal that in how aggressively you defend your beliefs.

I at times will do the same, as does anyone, but when I step back and take that third person perspective about myself, I am secure in my beliefs and don't really give a crap if others agree with me or not. I don't need the affirmation or acceptance of others to understand and know what I believe.

You stand so proud and tall and proclaim your views and beliefs, Desos, but what I hear is uncertainty and a little fear in your voice, wanting someone to say, "you've got it Desos, your search is over!"
That won't happen my friend, and if it does then all the more reason to keep on journeying.

That is the meaning and intention of that song.
The fool knows in himself his answer, doesn't matter what any one else says or thinks.

 

just because i share my ideas, it doesn't mean that i do it for reaffirmation. i do the things i do because if you give someone the right idea at the right time it can effect their journey. for better or for worse. also because it is just too easy to know in yourself the answer and it to not be constantly challenged. i don't care how enlightened you are, if you can't present your knowledge into verbage and action it doesn't mean shit. part of this comes through understanding your ideas well enough that you could understand the truth in them even in relation to other ideas and be able to illucidate your ideas in the face of controversy. to be able to bring truth where there is none.

and by this i do not mean that everything i am saying is true.

 

Hope I didn't offend you, but it sounds as if I struck a nerve.
It's not in the sharing that the insecurity shows, it's in the manner of defending.

 

lol, you didn't offend me, don't worry. but i don't know why you wouldn't defend your knowledge in the face of what is contradicting it.

whatre you going to do? say your wrong to yourself, chuckle and walk away? or are you going to turn to the object which is wrong and say 'You're wrong.'

Smith: You're Wrong.

 

Neither, no need to sell if your homeward bound.
I don't need to 'sell' you or any one else on my beliefs because I am secure in them as they are at this time.
That thinking that you are expressing is very deeply rooted in that good/bad dichotomy that you seem to be so entrenched in.
I can look at things and just accept them as being they way they are without having to ultimately quantify them. Same with any disagreements about my beliefs, they just are what they are as yours are what they are.
They don't have to be in agreement to be true or right for ourselves personally.
I can share, express and teach without the need to convince.

 

Oh and by the way Desos, you don't have any idea of what your talking about.
Man you are so wrong, and so not right that you may as well buy a car that only turns left, 'cause you sure as hell ain't right!

 

perhaps that is where we differ, in that you believe in personal belief and personal truth. i believe in universal truth that applies to everyone. it's easy to believe that everyone has their own truth within in our own little bubbles within our own little section of society. but when the walls of society come down and you are faced with the real brotherhood of man then alot changes. try spending a while with a large group of people (50-100) in which you spend all of your time together and share everything in common and you'll know what i mean. it becomes very obvious that truth is not only subjective.

but then again, this is only my story.

 

consensus reality
that is the same methodology that cults use.
How do you know truth isn't subjective?
In very real, simplistic physiologic terms, all you know is what your nervous system tells you. For all you know it could all be a dream.

Desos when you wake up and come to the realization that a whole lot of what you express here is based on a lot of assumptions on your part, that will be the beginning of knowledge for you. You are so caught up in semantics and right/wrong, good/bad systems of veiwing the world that you can't see beyond it.
One day you will understand what I mean.

 

Hey Desos, I notice we have both been on here almost all day.
Man are we pathetic or what
We both need to get a job and a life.
Now I'm depressed:sad: