The Purpose of the Human Life

Who said that? The American government, as well as any government in this world, is merely a power structure, and thus, very corruptible, especially in this present age of Kali. I certainly do not agree with the policies of this American government, 'bomb and kill', which is pure stupidy, especially on the part of the American populace to let it take place, when they could stop it, if they demanded their government stop it.

See, a person in Krsna consciousness does not think "I am an American", "He is an Iraqi", and so there is no national boundaries. I tell you, the propagation of Krsna consciousness is the greatest service you can give to human society.

A person in true Krsna consciousness, does not make any distinction of any living entity based on their material body, and thus is hestitant to kill even an ant. I must admit, I have not yet reached this stage of purity, not killing even bugs, so I cannot call myself a servant of God at all.

 

I meant foundars when I wrote leaders, my bad. People like Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada are often called Divine in different websites.

 

yes different cultures call God by different names....but this was also in old testament times, and hey God wasn't like that. Also in new testament times, and the apostles went into the world and preached ONLY JESUS and changed the world. Maybe read something of acts 17 where Paul is in Athens and preaches about repenting to God, Christs death and resurrection and that there will be a judgement. And the Bible is clear about it that salvation only comes through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, nothing else (book of Romans).

I respect that you have an universal belief (though I don't agree with it) but then base it on religious writings that support an universal belief, and the Bible isn't one of them.

 

He brought God/Krsna consciousness to the West. He did this at the age of 69 years. Think about it. He certainly could be called Divine, but he repeatedly said "I am not God, I am a SERVANT of God". He speaks repeated "Anyone who says that they are god is actually lower than a dog".

 

I recently got done reading 1st Corinthians, and this does not stand up to the modern day fundamentalist ideal of "My way is the only way, all others are wrong". The word Christ is the greek version of the word Krsna, or Krsta, to be even more accurate. Christ stands for the Supreme Lord, so please stop confusing the Supreme Lord with his human incarnations.

Krsna consciousness does not go against Christianity, it also teaches surrendering to God, etc. Now, I will quote you some verses.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are raving wolves. (Could this be applied to fundamentalists?)

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brthern, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them. (Sound a lot like fundamentalists, which preach separation, instead of unity?)

Acts 15:1
And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethern, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (Could this be refered to people who say "This is the only way, all other ways are false"?)

Romans 10:12
For there is no differrence between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. (the same Lord, even though the different cultures obviously called Him by different names, having different languages. By 'all', did he mean only the Christians, or only the Muslims, or only the Jews, or only the Hindus?)

And, with all due respect, I must remind you, that the Srimad-Bhagavatam is obviously much older than the Bible, the Torah, the Qu'ran, in fact, it was around before those religions even came into existence.

 

I'll even be a bit bolder. Now, if there is a fundamental idea, the basic foundation of a religion, then that idea should be QUITE CLEARLY EXPRESSED, FREE FROM INTERPRETATION in the religious scripture? Is this not correct?

Kindly, I ask you to find a verse in the Bible that specifically states the words "You can only get to Heaven by being a Christian, and anyone who does not believe in Christ will go to eternal damnation. All other religions are flat out wrong". Since this idea is the foundation of modern Christianity, I would expect it to be clearly stated in the Bible, without any interpretation, since it is such an important part, in fact the foundation of the modern Christian faith, I would expect to find it quite clearly stated in words very, very similar to what I just typed. Not, "Whoever shall believe in Him shall have eternal life", or "The only way to the Father is through me".

Jesus did not seem to ever make the statement I typed above, but he did make the statement "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Why do the christians continue to interpretate this for their own meaning? It is quite clear. Thou shalt not kill, means any living creature. If Jesus meant to not kill your fellow man, he would have used the word 'murder', so do christians think that Jesus was not intelligent enough to use the right word? The christians, of all people, should not be eating meat, yet they find no moral wrong in maintaining these massive slaughterhouses of death.

 

Yes, they are about equal. They know different things but have the same capacity.

You have a point there, any change will have to start from within if it is to have any staying power/force. Can't change society unless the people themselves change; otherwise you may solve a few symptoms, but new symptoms just spring up to take their place.

 

to battle over the english words used in teh translation of latin, which had in turn been translated from hebrew and other old texts.. is just foolish.

ah, so ants are more human than hunter gatherers? they have everything except intelligence.. which you later said hunter gathers do not even have (essentially)

I have not had bad experiences with christian fundamentalism, or any spirituality at that rate. Ive had experiences with myself. Would you like me to share them?

here we go

Realisations of self.

Realisations of humanity.

The two are essentially identical.

MY self-realisation is THAT i am a mind formed by a brain in a body



My self realisation is THAT the brain is a powerful thing and should not be treated simply as the home of the 'soul' but as THE 'soul'



My self-realisation is THAT my brain embraces the acceptance of a god, for it makes me feel better. As do drugs, and I consider belief in god(s) as a drug, but a state of mind that does not require one to do anything except feel, themselves, that they are a part of the right thing, spiritually. An evil person who thinks god forgives them is going to feel just as good as a good person who thinks theyÂ’re safe, spiritually.



My self-realisation is that the mind I have works on these feelings, and that the only real purpose in life is to follow one's feelings, whatever they may be.



My self realisation is that while I must follow my feelings, everyone else in the world should to, but humans have devised what we know of as 'ethics' and 'morals' which are necessary to keep some sort of vague balance so that more people are happy than without them.



My self-realisation is that, as a human, while life is essentially pointless, I can conceive meaning. Achievement makes me feel good, as does gratification. And so, I can join these concepts of feeling and meaning to give my own life a specific direction, which is to influence as many lives as I can, fulfilling achievement and gratification; while at the same time embracing morals, and helping morals and ethics (not necessarily the ones taught today) grow in communities, and ensuring that it is not just I who grows at the expense of others.



Me self-realisation is that, as a human, while I can perceive myself, I can also perceive others. Life should not be about ascending yourself to heaven, but ascending the whole human race. It is how humans are meant. Humans, unlike most creatures, require external education.



My self-realisation is that I am in this way a hypocrite, for I believe one should follow their feelings, and that spirituality is about feelings. Yet I also believe the truth should come before feelings, when it comes to belief. Humans have the concept of meaning, and so I believe the one thing that should come above feelings is knowing that we are based on feelings. You say that the thing we have different from animals is self-realisation. I believe that its not just self realisation, its the concept of meaning of and in every part of the universe. I do not consider spirituality as an issue of meaning, but an issue of feelings that relate to the human concept of meaning.



My self-realisation is that I think that People should understand spirituality as a human concept, and use it for moral and sociological teaching and understanding; should not be taken as the source for the universe, but as the source of humanity.



My self-realisation is that I donÂ’t think humanity would function without some sort of religion somewhere. While many people are becoming 'atheist', I donÂ’t think youÂ’ll find that many people embracing the idea that there is no afterlife. If spirituality were gone, most humans, due to most humans being slaves to society (as was intended by evolution), would loose all sense of meaning or direction in life, and see no value in theirs or other peopleÂ’s lives. But I see my belief, that is, that when we die, we die, as making life to become the most valued thing possible. See, if life is infinite... then it has no value. It is the same with any and every resource, despite what anyone will say. And if this can be embraced... then life would take on a whole new meaning. But society would possibly collapse. It depends if people want to work a 9-5 job and then die, as opposed to living a 9-5 job and passing onto the next level that is hopefully more fun than the current one.



I even postulate that human communication is based directly on conveying meaning to each other, and that everything specific that makes us humans and designs our inner monologue is in turn a direct result of human communication.



Perhaps god created man? But monkeys created god.



This and these are my self-realisations.

 

“The word Christ is the greek version of the word Krsna, or Krsta, to be even more accurate.”

The word Christ is the greek word of the hebrew ‘messiah’. The term ‘christians’ was created in Antioch, one of the first non-jewish city’s with a christian community (heathens turned christian, which Paul refers to as greek, contrary to jewish christian, which Paul refers to as jews. All are christians). This is written in acts 11:26.

False prophets are those who preach false teaching. How to find out what false teaching is and what not should be found in the Bible.

The ‘doctrine which ye have learned’ in romans 16:17 is the teaching of the apostles, based on the OT and the gospel. It is the teaching that Jesus is the Messiah, or Christ, and has died and resurrected so that there is salvation for those who have faith in Him (this is what a very big part of the book romans is about).

The thing about circumsision is that these people wanted to add good deeds to get to heaven, Paul and Barnabas opposed this because salvation is by the grace of God, through faith since the sacrifice of Christ. In acts 15, the church leaders get together and decide that that is the way, because Christ is the fulfilment of the law.

In romans 10:12, the jews are christian jews (for in romans 9-11, it says that jews that did not accept Christ are branches broken off the tree). The greek are non-jewish christians (not only greek but all heathens, be it barbarians, romans, greek, etc. ‘greek’ is just a NT term for non-jewish christians).

hope to hear a reply from you. Hope that we can discuss this in peace.

 

You can go on speculating for a million years and never come to the SupremE Truth. Only by surrender and submission can one be prepared to recieve this Truth. Understanding the Supreme Truth is not a matter of pride, but of humility and intelligence.

 

But, there is no verse that specifically states the foundation of modern Christianity, "Unless you accept Jesus Christ, you will burn in hell forever. All other religions are wrong". This is the fundamental teaching in Christianity, and yet, for some reason, it isn't stated anywhere in the Bible in language that is as clear as the above mentioned phrase. I will quote some scripture from the Gita, now.

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." Lord Krishna (Bg. 18.66)

The Bhagavad Gita is the word of God, as it was spoken by God himself and not a self declared son of God or prophet. The Bhagavad Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna, 3100 years before Jesus and 3700 years before Muhammad. It is the only known scriptures spoken by God in person. Hinduism is the only religion based on following a God who has been actually seen by millions. All other religions are based on believing in a God who has never been seen. The Bhagavad Gita gives exact information regarding God, the soul, material nature, birth, death and life after death. No other religious scripture provides this information.

 

Hey Dutch, do you have AIM or Yahoo Messenger? It is much easier to discuss these kinds of things in real-time, instead of having to use a message board. My AIM screen name is ShamanoftheTribe, my Yahoo screen name is Muscles598
Peace

 

just because it doesn't say so in the very same verse doesn't mean that it doesn't say it clearly. in the Bible it says that there is no other way that Jesus. That in His sacrifice there is salvation. That there shall be a day of judgement. That salvation is by the grace of God, through faith (and living faith automatically gives birth to good deeds, which are not a way to get salvation). etc. etc. etc. Like I just said, just because it doesn't say so in the very same verse doesn't mean that it doesn't say it clearly.

 

I feel that I've been too harsh in my posts, so please accept my obeisances, Dutch.

Let's find something to agree on. I think that we can both agree that the soul is the eternal servant of God. And I think that we can agree that the purpose of the human life is to cultivate love of God.

That is the basis of KC, Christianity, even Islam.

 

Who told you this, a priest?

I admit that I do not know whether I have seen God or not. I will not take the word of a man practiced in the art of self deception over actual revelation by God. Doesn't this leave us at a standstill until God reveals God's existence to us personally?

 

Can we agree that a good purpose for human life is to keep the spark of love and joy alive until a future generation gains the power to preserve it forever in a potentially uncaring universe?

edited to add: Uggh, sorry I said that.

 

"I feel that I've been too harsh in my posts, so please accept my obeisances, Dutch."

absolutely forgiven, dude! When people have a discussion, often it happened that they retreat to their own home turf (which can be religion/ideology etc) and argument from those points. On itself, nothing is wrong with that, because it is normal to talk from your heart and your own identity. When I talk from my heart, it will be logical that I say christian things for I am christian. then, a discussion can sometimes become a bit cold because people don't understand eachother or don't wanna listen to eachother. So the reasoning out of your own terrain is not bad on itself, the lack of understanding, respect are the problems, and not wanting to listen. I have the idea that we disagree but we do want to have a peaceful and good conversation so that's all groovy man.

"Let's find something to agree on. I think that we can both agree that the soul is the eternal servant of God. And I think that we can agree that the purpose of the human life is to cultivate love of God."

I agree, we both believe the soul is the eternal servant of God and that the purpose of the human is to know God and to make Him known (that's how I'd put it in words, but it's the same thing).

"That is the basis of KC, Christianity, even Islam.'

hmmm I'd say that these things are absolutely important in all 3 of them, but still, the core of christianity is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. Anyway, we can still have a good conversation. So that's good.

 

The Gita was spoken from Krishna to Arjuna 5100 years ago. So yes, it is God's actual words. Try reading some of the Gita, and you can see for yourself, friend.

And yes, let's hope that we can keep ourselves alive long enough for intelligent men to rise to power.

 

I accept Jesus as a great guru, and I often read his teachings. But to blatantly call him the only authorized teacher of God, is to deny the authority of other religious teachings. It is similar to having the attitude "I am an American, thus I am better than everyone else". There are servants of God in all cultures, all religions. God is not just for the americans, or for the white man.

 

The only problem I have with this statement is that there is no true indication that God spoke these words. It is in your own imagination that God spoke these words directly. It is wrong for you to presume that your imagination is more refined and true than anothers- for God, if God exists, would be able to produce many pure and refined imaginations in many wonderful beautiful ways. The only truth we can discern from religion is that it is part of the bonfire that burns within our imaginations, and perhaps religion is only fuel for the fire that burns within our mind.

I am at a library, so hopefully they have a copy that I can check out. I just saw a copy of the Quran that I was pondering checking out.

Amen to that.