"The Truth shall be known..."

What do you mean by "division"?








♥ LOVE ♥

IAO |o|

Ø

 

You can't question them, but you can try to understand them.

True. Forever is timeless though. So, Truth simply is. Don't glorify it such more, not even the greatest glory could express Truth.

There is a balance, if you break the harmony, you fall to pieces, and you loose your roots. Our blunders and arrogance, our hope in illusions has become personified as "Devil". It is not a being, it is our state of mind.

Yes, if you mean that by there simply being "what is", or "Truth", things such as hope can exist. One does not need to hope for their own spirit if they realize they are not separate from "breath", but as one. They can only hope that others, who they are also a part of, realize the unity.

You can't give it or receive it. You can open your eyes to what is or you can close them, and opening one's eyes can be very refreshing.

Not in spite of us. We create them too. It's just easier to empower symbols that we have created, instead of directly achieving that 'miracle', etc.

The carnal is born from spirit, if we are not at war within, there will be no more war without.

 

Division is making that which has no number or definition suddenly have one. It's weighing up the unknown - but how can that be so? Drawing lines in the sand. It is a way of viewing the world and interacting - with pieces, but until we realize each grain of sand is integrated, and that this psychological division does not exist beyond us, there will always be great confusion, war, pain and arrogance.

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Francisco
"you can not question Miracles! Healings! Deliverance! Truth!"

Reply by "shaman sun":
"You can't question them, but you can try to understand them."

Francisco's response:
your "understanding" is dark indeed, for it is within your "I" ;-(

sad for you ;-( what you need to do is believe and receive that which
is from without so that which is from within, that which is of the "I" might
die!

***
Truth is Real, and all that is Real is Forever!

"True. Forever is timeless though. So, Truth simply is. Don't glorify it such
more, not even the greatest glory could express Truth."

Real and Truth must be expressed as such because those who yet live
from their "I" have not "seen" that Truth and Real and Forever are in and
of one another. for those liken unto you verbage is needful. Truth IS!

***
you testified, "We are only the walking dead because we have trapped
ourselves in our illusions, and call them real."

exactly and that is why you can not "see" the wicked, evil world for
what it is, "d"evil's playground ;-( and those "of this world" are
destroying Creation(earth/air/water/creatures) ;-( and "The Great Spirit
is going to destroy those who are destroying HIS Creation"!

"There is a balance, if you break the harmony, you fall to pieces, and you
loose your roots. Our blunders and arrogance, our hope in illusions has
become personified as "Devil". It is not a being, it is our state of mind."

once again in hopes that you might "hear":

you testified, "We are only the walking dead because we have trapped
ourselves in our illusions, and call them real."

sad that you are one of the "We" ;-(

exactly and that is why you can not "see" the wicked, evil world for
what it is, "d"evil's playground ;-( and those "of this world" are
destroying Creation(earth/air/water/creatures) ;-( and "The Great Spirit
is going to destroy those who are destroying HIS Creation"!

***
yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

"Yes, if you mean that by there simply being "what is", or "Truth", things such
as hope can exist. One does not need to hope for their own spirit if they
realize they are not separate from "breath", but as one. They can only hope
that others, who they are also a part of, realize the unity."

breath(spirit) feeds the natural body and enlivens it, and those who reject
The Spirit that is The Life have no part with The Life but rather serve and
believe in death ;-( and the author of death, "d"evil spirit, he who is "the
father of lies" rules over his evil "empire" that humanoids call the "world" ;-(
a wicked, evil world indeed ;-( and those who serve "time" in the prison of
this world serve the angel of death ;-(

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that there would be those who experience The Miracle
that is "receiving a love of The Truth".

***
hope is you would separate yourself from the "We" that are "the walking
dead" and experience The Miracle that is "receiving a love of The Truth"!

"You can't give it or receive it. You can open your eyes to what is or you can
close them, and opening one's eyes can be very refreshing."

you can not receive that which you do not believe no matter how "wide
open" your "eyes" happen to be. may the "eye" of your understanding be
opened that you might "see", and desire to receive Truth.

***
Miracles do happen ;-) in spite of us!

"Not in spite of us. We create them too. It's just easier to empower symbols
that we have created, instead of directly achieving that 'miracle', etc."
sad for you ;-( Truth is A Miracle and seems will always remain but an illusion
to you ;-( hope is you will be delivered from your "imag"ination, for only then
will see your need. what a blessed place is occupied by the "poor and needy".

***
peace, in spite of the wars(spiritual and carnal) that rage....... francisco

"The carnal is born from spirit, if we are not at war within, there will be no
more war without."

"carnal" is of the earth, earthly and fleshly. if there is no war(spiritual)
within, then you have lost the war ;-(((((( you have given up, and
given in, to "the lust of your flesh, the lust of your eyes, and the pride
of your self-life(I)" ;-( and follow "d"evil way of death ;-(

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

for Miracles do happen!

may you experience The Miracle that is "receiving a love of The Truth".

peace, in spite of the wars(spiritual and carnal) that rage....... francisco

 

Yeah, I understand what you mean. But you see..."faith" is something that nobody can give. You just got to experience it to start believing beyond all forms and structures we've been learing since...the dawn of humanity. Some call them "religious experience"...That's beyond logical understanding.
"Everything" is possible hence I'm sure that confusion, war, pain and arrogance as you say...will dessapear

There is a Mike Oldfield theme called "RESOLUTION". The voice constantly says: Resolution, Revolution...and I add one more word: Resolution, Revolution, Evolution






♥ Love ♥

IAO |o|

Ø

 

Yes, I think we are already on the same page here. Just keep in mind that "Faith" goes even beyond faith. Applied spirituality, not passive and dogmatic, but transreligious spirituality, one that accepts the differing institutions as stepping stones and not stumbling blocks, may be considered a synonym for "Faith".

Brings to mind a poem,

Sparrow

[size=-1]In sparrows woven, newborn rest,

And nestled in their warmth, for best,

As mother tends under guided wing,

To teach these newborns while they sing,

As one day the all must see,

That feathers, supple, lift them free,

To make first leap, in nature's sight,

Alone, Sparrow must take first flight.[/size]

 

The "I" must let itself dissolve. That is the most difficult thing for us to do, to accept death, and thus transcend it.

***

*** That is understood. Just be careful how you express it. Language is a tool, language can be art. If you are trying to convey something, make sure you understand it first.

There is no after or before the "While". Spirit is. No need for hope, only to see. Just breathe and be. That simplicity alone can strike the resonating chord within us and allow what you 'hope' for to be understood as "what already is". Like an Angel who has fallen asleep in heaven, and is finally waking up from his dream.

"

Again, you are lost in a flowery message when the heart of the matter requires you to simply see. As a word of suggestion, and not to sound as if I am above you - there is no above or below - but, we all grow. I hope you can break out of this shell, no matter how very beautiful a shell it seems to be. Spirit is. "What is", is. Thusness. The Void. God. The Great Spirit. Names, names, symbols and words, all which, from various cultures and beliefs, point towards some universal spirituality. If we have learned anything from our ventures on this Earth over the past few thousand years, it is that Truth cannot be imposed or contained by a single thought or culture. In fact, Truth encompasses all of those things, but it is not limited to them - can you see that? I hope you can. Sincerely.

All is a miracle, even your breath.

 

"shaman sun" sounds like just another "modern" day "gay" theology ;-(

sad for you ;-(

yet while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

Miracles do happen!

even for the reprobate.

may you expererience The Miracle that is "receiving a love of The Truth".

peace, in spite of the wars(spiritual and carnal) that rage....... francisco

 

"transreligious spirituality" is for transvestites ;-(

and the multitudes of "i'm ok, your ok" she/he's and he/she's
that populate this wicked, evil world.

yet again, while there is breath(spirit)" there is hope!

Miracles do happen!

yes, there is hope that even those who are reprobates would
experience The Miracle that is "receiving a love of The Truth".

peace, in spite of the wars(spiritual and carnal) that rage....... francisco

 

Nothing is okay and nothing is not okay. It's very simple. There are a few core aspects of every religion, even in what you are saying, that are synonomous. The philosopher Ken Wilber explains this through the examples of language. Though each language is very different, they still have particular aspects that every one of them share.

It is arrogant to say that every way is right, to say only one way is right is to be as equally arrogant. And I am saying neither.

It would appear that religions and particular beliefs, whatever they may be, stem from spiritual experience - these experiences are defined by one's perception's of them. None of the ways have it right, but none have it wrong either. Most religions are the personification of forces we cannot comprehend, so we build A Goddess or a God, or a Great Spirit around it - as symbols. The problems occur when these symbols become all important, as you seem to have done.

 

No. Faith is one thing and Hope is another...

Spirituality is NOT a RELIGION. So there are no dogmas, no institutions here. That's why spirituality is "broader" than any particular religion. Have you checked out the differences?







♥ LOVE ♥

IAO |o|

Ø

 

I'm aware of that, but religion attempts to crystallize spirituality. It cannot, but we at least create the illusion of that. So, spirituality encompasses all religions, but not the opposite. It is like the temple built of stone, of the Earth. We have built a place of worship , but the Earth is where it is from, the Earth is what the temple is, they are one in the same, and no temple may stand alone.

By Faith, I was distinguishing the differences between Religious 'faith', and Spiritual Faith. From the Idol to the Awareness.

By seeing the limitations of religion and beginning to understand Spirituality, we can see the picture a little clearer - not in terms of technical knowledge, but just direct faith. Spirit. Are we not on the same page?

 

Yeah but religions, which are supposed to teach us about spirituality, nerver mention it...Only Oriental Religions speak about spirituality. Nevertheless people keep "the idol" thing in their heads. It's such a social-cultural-religious matter that we end up doing whatever we are told. This reminds me so much about scientists like Skinner and Pavlov...don't know why I brought that example. Perhaps many of us are still "animals" (no conscience-no conciousness)

Yeah, that could be...like spirituality integrates "all", you mean?

I didn't quite followed you here but perhaps you meant "integration"?

Oh, yes. I Fully agree But let's not forget that Awareness is not Faith nor Faith is Awareness. One complements the other and vice versa. But not the same thing.

Yes of course, but again...does knowing or being closer to Spirituality necessarily mean you may have "Faith"?
It's really difficult to have Faith "without actually seing". It's in human nature...


♥ Love ♥

IAO |o|

Ø

 

"religion" is Anti-Messiah.......period.......

symbols? sad thing is you not only have names for your symbols you attempt
to portray them, and symbolism is paganism indeed!

Truth IS! and all that is of Truth IS forever! philosophy(symbolism) is but the
vain attempt of "imag"inative and spiritlifeless humanoids to find a sense
of wellbeing in the self-life they have created ;-(

and seems you would be of those who consider drug induced hallucinatory
experiences to be worthy of a belief system;-( such spirituality is but
grounded in "signs and lying wonders" ;-(

Faith apart from Miralces is liken unto the house built upon the sands of
time and the fultileness of human effort ;-(

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

for Miracles do happen!

may you experience The Miracle that is "receiving a love of The Truth".

peace, in spite of the wars(spiritual and carnal) that rage....... francisco

 

shaman sun" sounds like just another "modern" day "gay" theology ;-(

sad for you ;-(

yet while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

Miracles do happen!

even for the reprobate.

may you expererience The Miracle that is "receiving a love of The Truth".

peace, in spite of the wars(spiritual and carnal) that rage....... francisco

 

According to Jesus Christ's taughts...if you say "gay" to someone you're saying "gay" to yourself.
So do not do or say what you don't like to be done or said in return.






♥ Love ♥

IAO |o|

Ø

 

You should never assume.

To be trapped in oneself and their own web of lies is quite the intoxication. Quite easy to point the finger and make sense of things there, considering they can be weaved any way you choose.

You speak of Truth beyond the imagination, yet you are lost in your own words. Get to the point.

 

Indeed!
A paradox. To understand without seeing. What is there to see?

 

Truth and "imag"ination are liken unto Light and darkness and you currently
abide in the darkness that is your "imag"ination" ;-(

and your words do indeed testify of who and what you are for you "see" your
own "I" quite clearly, and clearly your ""I" must die"!

In as much as one can see,
That which is of the ‘I’ in me,

So it is the need to yearn, and to Our Father cry,
For deliverance from all that is of the ‘I’,

The ‘I’, the creation of "imag"ination and selfish desire,
As lust, greed, and pride, stoke a consuming fire,

A fire burning out of control, as ‘I’ leads the way,
It’s smoke concealing the fleshly mind that leads one astray,

Yet even in the smoke, searing heat, and blindness of “sight”,
Truth can pierce that blackness of darkness, revealing “The Light”,

And nothing can hide from “The Light”, so “Light” reveals the “I”,
Allowing one to "see" clearly, and clearly “I” must die,

But to live, yet die, seems an impossible task,
And so we need of “Our Father”, the impossible to ask.

Help me to “deny myself"(die to self)(die to ‘I’)” Father!

And as HE helps, HE reveals more and more of “The Selfless One”,
He Who leads His Brethren on “The Way to The Truth of The Life”.

The Messiah, "the beginning of The Creation of The Great Spirit"!

And as it was for The Messiah, so also will it be for His Brethren.

The Messiah was "a servant of The ONLY TRUE GOD, Father of ALL",
and desired above all else:

"Father, not My will, But THY Will Be Done"!

And The Brethren of The Messiah will desire the same.......period.......

and while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope is that there would be those who would choose to follow The Messiah
on "The Way to The Truth of The Life", which He revealed in His Life example
and Teachings.

hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is
"receiving a love of The Truth".

peace, in spite of the wars(spiritual and carnal) that rage....... francisco

 

sad for you ;-(

the "gay" are the ones who call themselves "gay" and your understanding
of the teachings of The Messiah is "dark" indeed ;-(

yet that can be expected for it seems you beleive in the "catholic/christian"
lie that they named "jesus christ" ;-(

and the darkness that is the "catholic/christian" lies is liken unot a deep pit,
so deep that those who are held captive by the lying whorish religious
systems can not "see" The Light shining above ;-(

firstly, the name "jesus" was first "imag"ined and spoken less than 500 years
ago when the pagan "catholic/chrisitan" whores decided to name one-head of
their three-headed pagan "god" "jesus" ;-( that was some 1500 years after
"The Messiah was raised from among the dead by His GOD and Father"! and
today their "imag"ined "jesus" had become their "god" ;-(

now if you wish to use the transliterated Hebrew/greek/english name given
The Messiah by His Heavenly Father, that would be "Joshua" in modern day
english or "Yahshua" in olde english.

however, when The Messiah was immersed by and in The Holy Spirit before He
began His Ministry on earth He then was "Immanuel", which means "GOD with
us"!

and The Messiah testified, "the words I speak are not My words, they are
the words of Our Father WHO sent Me", "the works I do are not My works,
but it is My Father WHO does the work", The Messiah testified, "I can do
nothing of Mine Own Self". "GOD with us", "Immanuel", "The Great Spirit was
in The Messiah" indeed! and today "GOD is yet with those" who have
"received a love of The Truth"!

finally, names used to have meaning and purpose, but then the"catholic
/christian" pagan religious systems began their vendetta against Truth
and sought to destroy and eliminate any meaning or purpose to Life ;-(

and as was prophesied, "multitudes will follow the broad way to destruction"
and "multitudes will say to The Messiah, Master, Master have we not done
this and that......" and The Messiah will respond, "depart from me, all you
who work iniquity" ;-(

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

for Miracles do happen!

may there be those who experience The Miracle that is
"receiving a love of The Truth".

peace, in spite of the wars(spiritual and carnal) that rage....... francisco