The World Isn't Going To End, But It Is Going To Change

we arent talking about the end of the world..that wont come till the sun super novas
we are talking here about what the hopi call the end of the 4th world & beginning of the 5th

according to prophesies here is what will happen & in fact is happenning today
starting shortly after 2000 the earth will go through massive changes, increases in natural disasters, both in number & severaty, climate changes, cold places will get warmer & warm places colder there will be massive starvation, most of the population will die, however those who have headed the signs & returned to a more natural existance will survive, the tribal coltures ogf the world are getting prepared for these changes, saving seeds, & preparing to head for higher ground, many of these tribes also have prophesies about the comming of a new tribewho will care for the earth..& teach others from all cultures to live tribaly & close to nature, that tribe has been recognized for the past 35 years, a hopi elder explained these changes to me like this: mother earth will reacte as if we were fleas, & she will try to shake & scratch & bite to get rid of us. the human race with all its progress has weakened itself greatly, effectively reversing natural evolution, we no longer can walk barefoot in the snowm or ressist natural diseases without chemicals or survive easily without shelter & all the modern conveiniences.
last night on the news they talked about how over the next 100 years we will most likely have lots of storms more severe then katrina, & that is true, & many other disasters, the equilibrium will be reastablished, but by the time it is the population ogf humans who know how tto survive will be less then 1/10th which is really all the earth can handle without our stupidity & arrogance messing things up.

 

SoaringEagle

But that IS the end of the world.

The world is planet earth. Not our cosy enviroment...

The 'END OF OUR COZY ENVIROMENT' just dont sound as important does it.
Not befitting a species as important as us.

Just like the twits who shout save the enviroment.
THEIR cozy enviroment...ONLY

The real enviroment does not give a crap about us.
Compared to a dinosaur killer, we are just about as dangerous to the enviroment as weeds in the back lot.

Occam

 

Inability to accept the mystic experience is more than an intellectual handicap. Lack of awareness of the basic unity of organism and environment is a serious and dangerous hallucination. For in a civilization equipped with immense technological power, the sense of alienation between man and nature leads to the use of technology in a hostile spirit---to the "conquest" of nature instead of intelligent co-operation with nature.

[size=-1]Alan Watts[/size]


We might question the definition of world as it is used here. This bio-sphere is delicately balanced in so far as support of human life is concerned, it is implicit that it contains a plethora of phenomena that we do not yet understand, and with our emerging power we are slowly, but surely, comming in contact with overt realization of the truth and reality of the dynamic that Mr. Watts refers to; "delicate," of course, requires a reference in order to be understood. So I propose that we take note of the wide selection of past cataclysmic events, take note of the effects involved, that we take note of the knowledge that we have about the evolution of our environment, about the evolution of the bio-sphere, examine what we can agree upon as constituting "our world," examine what can be inferred overall, asking "what are the potential vulnerabilities of 'our world'" ? We will find that it appears clear that there are many individual types of events and converging sets of events that could terminate all human existence, that could, in effect, terminate "our world." I believe that there is "more than enough to 'go around'" but in order to take balanced and efficient advantage of our resources including those resources that can provide direct protection from "world disrupting events" it is necessary, without becoming tyranical, to awaken the wisdom of mutal respect and cooperation; if we were to do this this would be the happiest planet this side of the galaxy. But in the 'short run' it is more difficult to heal than it is to destroy and pillage. There are many amoung us who are crude, violent and destructive, and it may be that they will have to be 'brought to their knees' via their own destructive behavior; and there will be those who will 'go down hard'. Let us all gain greater wisdom and courage.




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Natural

Cool post.
But please.
Stop calling a rational undertanding of ones place in the biosphere a
'mystic experience'

Mystic means what,,,cant be got without heavy spiritual thought?
More elitism.

Occam understands his position in the biosphere.
And he gained that understanding without unvieling any mystery.
All the 'information' that leads to such 'understanding'.
Is available to any who want to think about it.

Occam

 

Occam,


Although the following view, from my awareness, is overtly true it is, I believe, likely, not very 'popular'. And, I sense that in the years to come, as I have mentioned in the prior post in this thread, that this viewpoint will become substantiated by way of scientific method: As 'fantasy' and 'reality' are intimately linked so are intuition and 'rational thought.' And, as such, science utilizes, and has its foundation firmly set in, what would not be commonly referred to as 'mystical insight' but, instead, intuition. I agree with you that the use of the term "mystical" in the Alan Watts quote can have the 'ring' of "elitist talk." But experience and its descriptions are riddled with paradox, I believe that Mr. Watts is referring, really, to 'cutivated intuition' that tends to bring about balance in judgement and greater insight into the interconnectedness of all things; and, profound, descrete changes in consciousness; a continuum of these qualities. As a crude example I see a particular animal, say a tasmanian tiger; an animal thought extinct for more half a century. I clearly saw the tasmanian tiger; I have cultivated enough trust in the "sense tools" utilized in this experience such that I know that I saw a tasmanian tiger; I am clearly aware of areas of doubt in my experience, I have gained great trust for these "sense tools". But to prove to you that I saw a tasmanian tiger is another matter altogether. It might have been better to give an example from "common experience," many of which exist in human history; what in one time is only intuitively understood by few can be understood by many, by the masses, in another time. Folks such as Leonardo Da Vinci cultivated great trust in their "senses" or as I refer above "sense tools." These people find this through emotionally driven pursuit of the truth; minds not tending to halt at particular thinking because of fear of assumed meanings to experience and its interpretation, the ability to say I do not know; to hold the mind in states of dissonance that others would tend to hide from. So, yes, these states can have an elite aspect but they are available to all; I read Kahlil Gibran and I am humbled and I listen. These words can be "disproven" with 'logic' but all things truly speak to the heart. And this can be frightening because we know that human attention can be lead along a mryiad of paths; we humans often tend to have a strong drive to try to fulfill ourselves by trying to control others; what a powerful thing to question ourselves and to cultivate heathly reserve. Look at all the religions and "elite" groups that wage "psychic war" against that that does not conform to what in reality tends to make these groups feel comfortable. If we are to morally, spiritually and functionally survive we must evolve to have healthy respect for differences; cultivating our childrens intuitions by learning openly through honest self-review as we teach them, and thus teaching them to ponder and find the truth.


Peace,

David




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I am not buying this fear factor. I am suprised at how easy it is people to get scared. Goverments, and the media, know that by putting the fear into people is a way of controlling them, and most people buy it. Be scared of the world blowing up, of your neighbour, of that obscure country 2000 miles away, of the burgers you eat, of the level of your cholesterol, etc, of your increasing weight, etc and y'all buy it. Runnig around like headless chickens, worrying all your lives.

Go out and drink some beer and get laid.

Rahman,

My gig is not in beer but I get the idea, and I agree. I believe that it is important that we be aware of danger and approach it 'rationally'; the present administration is grossly misguided and this will show in time. There are much better ways of dealing with the prospect of "attack" than methods that evoke attack, amplify distrust and animosity, destory our freedoms and economy, and cause mass death and agony both in the USA and abroad. In short we are in trouble because there are large unenlightened entities that are driving this; reactionary populace, oil, military industrial complex and more. However, instead of reacting to this in a manner that causes "psychological whiplash" we should directly communicate these messages through what we are doing; by being active. It is important that we teach the truth by example and just exercise of our rights to those who are poised by thier error and their innate ability to know. And although there are those in these groups that will destroy and harm we might heed the words of Jesus, Dr martin Luther King and many others and not bow down to threats of harm or underhanded tactics. America is a great ideal and there are those who think and act in terms of "win at any price" rather than thinking and acting in terms of the American ideals. Honesty is the best policy and hiding from the truth no matter how difficult it seems is an error.

Peace,

David

 

David..

Agree fully.
Intuition is something that occam actually includes as a vital component in his method to understanding.
Many fundamentals are believed by occam based on intiution with only indicative 'logical' evidence.
Does this mean he trusts his heart?
If so..cool.

Occam would humbly sit at the feet of a cockroach. It that cockroach could increase his understanding.

Ps..And the last sentance of your complete post [not the above]was wonderfull.

Occam

 

Occam,



Thank You.

Sit humbly at the feet of experience ?

Do you remember our recent thread about immortality ?


David
23


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David

Surely do, occam proposed that immortallity via technology , making our physicallities as impervious as any bassalt cliff.
Was a more rational path than hopeing that we have an immortal soul
in a spiritual sense.
Spirit being just a word for that thing that is us.
Behind our eyes and within our emotion.

While we physically exist in this reality, we live.
SO it just seems obvious to make our physical existance persist for millenia.
Rather than decades.

"live as if you will die tomorrow.
Learn, as if you will live for millenia"

With technological immortallity.. The second option is finally open to us...


Occam

 

Occam,

Can we define technology as applied science in the context of our discourse ? And, can we agree to give the term science a very broad definition ? From this view, without the aforementioned "broad definition" but instead a narrow, strict, definition, yogas and hypnosis, as examples, can be then viewed as having technological aspects due to the utilization of (now) discovered phenomena about the nature of the functioning of the mind/body. The view that these examples are technologies can, also, be taken. What I propose is that further discoveries into the nature of consciousness may yield understandings that proper "modulation" of the mind/body can provide us with some of the "capabilities" that we refer to in this thread. The permanence that we assign to the anaolgy of "basalt" is, we can probably agree, on a scale of at least hundreds of millions of years; because what we measure 'of basalt' gives us this awareness. So we are talking at least hundreds of millions of years, how, in our definition, do we constrain the evolution of this 'immortal being'; how do we define the nature of its consciousness in terms that we can reasonably use in this discourse in order to better understand what we looking for; do we define it in terms of requests for memory information coupled with a valid output; do we add to the definition the willful use of the equivalent of opposing digits ? We need to know enough about what we are looking for such that we can seek it.


Peace,

David



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I love these gradual antagonizing disscussions we are having hear, but arguing your point will not surfice to hail and misconseption. You know, everyone seems to stand in the middle of the problem worrying about what is headed for them and wher eit will leave them rather than standing in the center of the solution.Even at the base of it, the fact is most people are so brainwashed by this society of ours most will not give a shit and will of course do what they were taught and look the other way. We will complain and complain and a few select will start to create ideas which they think to be plausable but the thing we need to understand is there is nothing we can do. We have sat to long on the back burner letting everyone make everyone elses desicions that it is no longer in our grasp. Until people actually come up with some strong ideas and step forward into making a movenment shit will continue in perpetual motion. Its like we are totally in need of a new revolution and shit, but not one of a lost cause. Our voices were heard for free love and expression, but were drowned out rather quickly because that was not making a profound difference. We need to step up to a cause and live for that cause, whether is be to save humanity or the mother.. however I think we could justify a way to compliment both. but us who actually care about such things, do need to step up to the plate rather soon. Even if it means us introverted minds to speak up. Your thoughts are worth a penny but maybe we need to start living int he way which we speak before lecturing others about it.

..sorry if my rampage was a bit uncoherant i'm a tad tipsy.

 

Stacie,


If this is you tipsy then that's good stuff... really it is you, and you, in my view, are correct. And you have indentified the "stall" or the reality, the potential, waiting to emerge from this thread and the like. You are correct, and I am humbled and inspired. I have had a strong lesson, relevant to the area that you speak of, that I cannot talk about; not that I am not able but that I will not and if you knew of the lesson you, I believe, you would understand. I will say this, however, sometimes people are poised by their position in existence to be able to make obvious good change come about on the human scene. I have also learned, a bit more so than I ever understood before, that there really are many people with "good sense" who are influencing large-scale good change in ways who are hidden from view. There are also those who will resist good change. I have also learned a lesson that seems implied in what you have said, that there are many with very significant potential in a worldly sense who are "dormant" and what you are saying is "wake up and make difference, make good change happen." A specific example might be to rapidly "engineer" a "vehicle" for ending, or nearly ending starvation in the world. Many people would laugh at this last example, throw their hands up while some would add "nothing we can do, let them die," and the justification would be that it is too complex a problem that requires to many entities to cooperate that will not cooperate. But as a hypothetical if an individual or small group found a way around the problem it would mean that, amoung other qualities, it was a very, very, cost-effective solution; then the real wolves would bear cloaked teeth. "Cloaked" because these wolves that I refer to know somewhere in their hearts that bearing "teeth" to such a work and or to the innovators would be wrong and profoundly immoral.

Again from a level where I personally relate to what you say in a pain-filled, joy-filled and inspired way; during the last few years I have been significantly damaged and yet, also, greatly strengthened; in someways, at least for now, I am intentionally dormant; not unlike an "ascetic surfer" waiting for intelligent existence, some call it by other names, to say, "OK boy, time to start again." This does not mean that I am not working, I am. But somehow I have cultivated, since I was a child, an unusual way of working that to me is just normal; a way that to me makes sense, and at it's root is honesty. Honesty in my actions.

I have learned to see into the self, into myself, and in doing this I see greater and greater variety in myself and, I believe, in others. There are those who have not been immediately blessed with this, I sense that you have significant blessings in this area. Most all people see much deeper than they consciously realize; when people see truth, see a truth, that makes them uncomfortable, and on "one level" there is a great spectrum of cause, of reasons, here, there are choices about how to react; some will hide, avoid, and some will seek the truth because they realize, consciously or unconsciously or by a hybrid of both, that this is good; that this is what our minds are naturally trying to do. Why people, to a significant extent, gain this conscious understanding, to me, is a mystery; but some of it appears to have to do with life experience.

Experiencing what you have done to another from a perspective akin to their prespective tends to evoke empathy and compassion; do on to others as you would have them do unto you. This can be 'logically' shown to be a statement that lacks significance but it really speaks to the heart, speaks to the intuition.

Intution translated into more tangible form can contain immense power, and there are those who when they see some of these translations will "go bananas"; often "well rationalized" materialism and egotism, on one level, are typical general reasons for this. If you read many the quotes of Albert Einstein you will see that the math and the physics of the day where some of the tools by which he cultivated and translated intuitive awareness. All of us have profound awareness. There is benefit in cultivating intuition and there is benefit in cultivating technical skill in order to act out in a good manner and to assist in translation of intuition, but the most important of these is intuition because it is at the root of all the others.


David

 

i'm quite sure the worlds life will end anytime before the sun's does.to me, oil is the blood of mother earth and we've already initiated a strangle on her atmosphere. its pretty much over. as for aliens, i'm convinced they'll start some shit sooner or later.

 

David

Science to occam is , efficient aquisition of understanding.
'Gaining understanding' is the operative.
Occam would like to see all paranormal and 'life philosophies' such
as buddhism clasified as science ASAP.

ANY system to understanding that is not qualified by desire and preconception.
That is impartial
IS science to occam.

Occam

 

People are scared of change. Admit it. I mean it seems like everyone has different handles on this dissucion, and will argue their point continuosly without avil... we've heard it all before. Even what I'm saying is nothing new. Just my opinion. We all feel like our voice has to be heard, even if it is perpetual bullshit...it's why we hold our ground and struggle not to gravitate onto different grounds. Tis why we lost in the 60's I think. Ya, people hated the war so desided to try and drown them out by letting loose... but the only statements that ever progressed were about people wanting choice. We still want choice, we did not previal in any type of debate. Ya war is still wrong people still loathe it. But nothing is being down about it, nuclears plants are still and will continue to distrubt more toxins that will cloud our air and pollute our food. are voice is not strong enough. What I think we need to be discussing is alternative ways of achiving an outcome. Diverse way to get our voice across and not drowned out. It would have to be a protest of the masses of some sort. Pick a day man, a certian office.. we'll all head out the same day and raise some shit... we still wont be heard you know... this is lame and i've rambled bullshit too long. sorry g

 

Stacie,



I agree. I think that it is very important that we find new effective ways to express alternate views but the core of this issue is in the nature of the consciousness of people in general and that teaching eachother and teaching our children about honest self review, and honest questioning, by example is extremely important. Most people are taught from young, in a subtle way, that, often, emotional dishonesty and shutting the mind down so as to not be pained by an experience over most considerations is OK and good. Know the truth and the truth will set you free, but most who speak these words do not appear to manifest the required courage as demonstrated by their actions. Powerful art gets past foolish defenses and communicates this idea and or other important ideas; and this is one reason why folks who live by significant use of denial of important truths that they are exposed to on a daily basis try to control the flow of information in a manner that trespasses; they have not yet learned to coexist because they are afraid that their way is not strong enough, that it will be trespassed upon; the sad irony is that it is OK to be unique, that this is the way it is, that basic human rights involve this, and it is OK to say I just feel that this is good and cannot explain exactly why.


Peace,

David

 

Jeff Widener (The Associated Press)


I will not be controlled by being threatened with violence.
I am an indivdual human with a voice and with dignity.
"You" have murdered many in order to maintain control,
unjust and corrupt control, and I will not be controlled -
I may be killed but I am not afraid "You".

We have not hurt anyone, we have done nothing wrong.
We have naturally arising and ultimately inalienable rights
as human beings to communicate with one another, to ask
questions, to self-expression and to self determination.
I stand for this, I believe in this, I believe that somewhere
inside you know that this is true, and I am not afraid of
"You".


This work, in similar form, was originally posted at
pekingduck.org/archives/000935.php by the author
of this article, "Gift from Wei Lin".

 

Occam,


The initiation of this thread is interesting, inspiring, thought inspiring, but I do not entirely agree. And as I have posted before:

Inability to accept the mystic experience is more than an intellectual handicap. Lack of awareness of the basic unity of organism and environment is a serious and dangerous hallucination. For in a civilization equipped with immense technological power, the sense of alienation between man and nature leads to the use of technology in a hostile spirit---to the "conquest" of nature instead of intelligent co-operation with nature. [size=-1]Alan Watts[/size]

Here is a story to start with and I, subsequently, will tie this in with the thread about immortality and this thread that relates to a mentality that tends to evoke damage to the global community rather than tending to, in the immediacy, evoke healing and a rapid shift toward a mentality that radically improves the human condition. I believe that when some folks hear the prior sentence they immediately think that they are going to loose something; quite the opposite, we will all gain as individuals. Healthy alternatives are available; faith in the ability to make it better, go for an ideal.

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102848

Peace,

David

 

I know we all totally mean well and shit by expressing all our different opinons but i think it is enough with this bullshit; these talkes need to stop unless we habve a totally cvalaid point to bring up something that will actually make us all realize. even me, I mean man I have a lot of shit to say buy its all so completely repeative. we need to stop our bullshit until we have a neew point of view to undertake... again sorry i abvously have more to say but am shitface. sorry for the non sense

 

You want results.
Find Heaven,
even in hell.
Balance,
because there are canibals;
Protect Your Self,
from insipid energies.
Love.




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