There is no God

I'm not gonna waste my time reading this argument but something made the world thats my proof whatever it is there's no way to know really what it is but what i see in the world is real to me so then even if something did'nt make it and everythings fake or non existant and there's no god, would'nt that make me god?

 

I was raised in the deep south. Bible belt country. A small country Baptist church where people spoke as you do now, so I'm quite familar with your side of the road.

There comes a time when faith is no longer needed. Spiritual truths present themselves to you directly. When you reach a certain level of spiritual maturity, you change, just like you change when you reach puberty. Call me an old soul if you like. It wouldn't be far from the truth. I'm not better than anyone else, just a little older.

Most of the world's people are still children in this kind of understanding. They may have great minds or great bodies, but their soul age is that of a child. It is the least developed part of them as a human.

I spend a lot of time with people like yourselves because I see how you struggle. Now, much of what I talk about is going to be hard to believe at first. Just like an older brother who goes off and travels the world, then comes home to tell his younger siblings what he's seen, its going to be met with scepticism. Someday, you'll grow up, take the same journey, and be met with the the same kind raised eyebrows as I do.

You're used to a children's story book called the Bible. Everything in it has been reduced to a child's level of understanding. Simplicity, at the expense of accuracy.

I put away my story book a very long time ago.

I have nothing to prove to anyone. I can't. But what I can do is share with you what the world is like through my eyes, in hopes that it will encourage you to move further down the path than you knew existed.

There's so much more than what you've been told.



x

 

Maybe you have put away the 'story book' but there are many older people out there whos faith is just as strong. Yes, religion may fade over time for some, but not all. Just because people are younger does not necessarily mean they know less, there are people who have gone through much more and learnt much more in their young lives than someone twice their age has. The bible is always going to say the same thing, Jesus is always going to say the same thing, only time will tell how I view them both in the years to come.

In what way do you see me and people like me struggling? You cannot claim to know anything of others lives or spiritual journey, just as you can't claim that the truth comes with age. It may be that people such as yourself are in denial for example.

At what age does a soul become 'adult'? A soul develops through life, from what you go through, what you learn and do. A soul is fullfulled through religion, families etc, people are all different, although they may be fundamentally the same. All seek answers, the truth and what and why things happen, but that's where faith comes in. In most cases it will not fade with age.

 

I'm not talking physical age.

I know you probably believe in one life and you're done, because this is what Christianity teaches. However, it takes many lifetimes to polish a soul. With each life, you gain in maturity.

The length of one's life has little meaning in regards to this.

How do I know you're struggling? Because thats what Christians do. They have an incomplete understanding of the master's teachings because the church itself has never been in possession of them. They have partial facts and downright fabrication, and that is what they offer. Its all they have.

Spiritual truths cannot be transmitted by a book. Not in any religion. It takes a living person who has embodied these truths. Their inner vision has been opened. They become a living "Word of God".

Christianity, and certainly other religions, have relied upon book learning instead of direct communion with the divine. They think just because someone has gotten a degree in theology, that they are capable of spiritual leadship.

That's NOT how it works. These people are nothing but well meaning imitations. But they can't tell. Hence, blind leading the blind.

The teachings of Jesus were never meant to spawn a religion like this. Jesus knew all too well that time corrupts such teachings once the master has passed. There's nobody to correct the path so interpretation starts to creep in. Before you know it, things have gone off course. Its been this way for Christianity for 2000 years. Twenty centuries of bad seed.

The true intent of Jesus' teachings is to produce Christs, not Christians.

There is no future for the latter, and certainly no eternity.

Only those who haved merged into the divine body as Christs themselves are beyond death. And thats the way its been since humans came down here.




x

 

Seems like me and you both have taken similar paths.

Not many know of spiritual truths.

 

I don't blame people for being atheistic, or agnostic. There is difficulty to allowing yourself to see these possibilities. Many feel that by thinking in the way that xexon, or I do, is something that is just not grounded in reality. So instead of looking into their own spiritual experiences as more than material, they objectify the experience as simply biological, or by subliminal instinctual drives that have a more "down-to-earth" quality to it. In other words, they turn what has happened into a mere object, and ignored the other possibilities as best as they can. Because to them, not doing so would be weak-minded, and it would mean that they are being naive. Insofar as it to say that their experience, if believed in to be more than a part of our instinctual drives, is madness, and thus, should be ignored. I don't give blame to those that can't look further, because it does require a lot of work to do so, and not everyone is up to this.

The truly religious wouldn't be bothered by others lack of faith.

 

So you know what Jesus thought?

You believe His miracles no longer mean what they once did? That when He said I am the way, the truth and the light, it meant only be a christ? That when He himself claimed to be the son of God, the Christ, He was only speaking in terms of one in many? That saying the only way to the Father is through Him, means nothing?

Also how do you know that there is no future, or eternity? Have you died and found out for yourself? I thought the arguement of whether or not there is an afterlife can only truely be found out once one has died? Or am I missing something here?

 

Depends which way you look at it. One can either think that if someone doesn't even want to consider the possibility then he doesn't deserve eternity in heaven, or one can think that it is either heaven or hell, and anyone humane would not want to have people go to hell. So perhaps that if why Christians may be bothered by others lack of faith.

 

So not considering the possibility is enough for someone to goto hell? This is the most miserable way to exist, yet the requirements to go there is to simply be too afraid, or unwilling, to make a leap of faith? There is no compulsion in faith, and if you force yourself to believe, just to escape punishment, then you aren't much of a believer. If the only reason why you refrain from doing evil, is to avoid punishment, then you are evil. If you believe, just to be rewarded, then you aren't a true believer. I would like to believe that God is a patient god.

No one really deserves hell, even the most terrible, and I don't think God, or your actions, sends you there.

I highly recommend that you watch Dogma- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120655/

 

I have seen Dogma, what of it!

If believing in God is all it takes to spend eternity in heaven, that's pretty small! Read the bible it explains all this! Then at least you can make an informed decision!

No christian is going to change their mind about God because you and others say that is evil!

 

You can't believe in God if you are just doing it to get into Heaven - That is pretty empty - I am pretty sure that the Bible talks about what I am saying, but in very convoluted ways because the Bible, at least the new testament, was altered multiple times by monks and scribes.

You are obviously upset, so I won't try to change your beliefs. But the only thing I'll say is, perhaps you worry, that if the Bible isn't the true word of God, then you worry where else can you retrieve it? All I can say to that is, you will find it without the Bible. The point is, everyone can know of God, regardless of books. God reaches to everyone, even those that are illiterate, and have no access to any written literature.

 

The message behind Dogma, is that religious Dogma distracts you from growing spiritually. What is important is having a good idea. And by following doctrines, you're hindering spiritual maturation - and this makes it harder to understand the meaning in our lives and God.


Btw, I never said any of this was evil.

Also, whenever I used the word, "you", in my reply, it wasn't directed towards YOU, but was used in general terms.

I am not trying to preach to you, so I won't say anymore about this to you. I was just merely giving my opinion, and I have no right to try to change your faith, even though that was never my intention to do so.

 

There are certain spiritual truths which never change. The messengers come and go with the years, but the message itself is always the same.

Jesus was a yogi. His manner, the way he teaches, what he says, all point to this. This is also my own lineage, so perhaps it takes one to know one?

Is it so hard to believe that Jesus (whose actual name is Yeshua) is a Hebrew yogi?

I don't know how familar you are with eastern religions like Hinduism, but the legends of what Jesus was fits very well with this idea. The difficulty in seeing this is more a matter of semantics than anything else. A "Christ" is not something that is exclusive to Jesus. Its a state of being for a spiritual seeker. The end game. The goal. It is where the individual "I" has been displaced in favor of God awareness.

Enlightenment, if you want to make it simple.

This goes back to the "Son of God". A Christ is indeed a son of God because of this merger. Human in form, but with an awareness that trancends this world. Of course, if you can see behind the curtain of what makes creation tick, miracles become pretty easy after that.

If you want to follow Jesus, you have to walk the path he pointed out. The problem with this is with Christianity itself, which has become so corrupted in the message, it is no longer clear how to get to where Jesus is.

Jesus was a human being. The worst disservice Christianity ever did was to turn Jesus into a deity. He was human, and by his example, we as humans can pass through the same gates as he. THAT, is the essence of his real message.

All this visual imagery of a supernatural being sitting next to a father figure on a throne is religous hooey. It was broken down into this kind of story so that the simple people of the day could understand it from their limited point of view. The use of a family to describe something that is otherwise beyond most people's ability is common in a lot of religions. "God" is very abstract. The mind needs something to get a grip on, so you use things that are familar to people, so that they might understand.

Christianity, forgot to let go of the symbolism. The real message gets slowly buried under superstition and worship. And since Jesus is no longer around to correct it...

And about worship. Jesus NEVER wanted to be worshipped. That by it's very nature, is a low form of human thinking. Jesus was light years above that.

As with many mystics who try to describe their inner experiences, Jesus first uses the religion of his upbringing to bring a message to the people. But after a while, he starts to inject things which are outside of established scripture and law. Now he starts getting on the nerves of those who see themselves as keepers of the faith.

The reason is, Jesus can see, where the priests themselves are blind, and use a holy book as their seeing eye dog.

My, my, how things have not changed.

Different religion. Same problem.

Part II And Ill be brief. I just woke up and haven't had breakfast yet.

Death. No such thing. The individual body will die, but not the spirit within. When you elected to come down to this world, you accepted the responsibility for any debt you run up while here. 99.9% of you went crazy with your account and now you can't leave until it's paid off. Yes, I'm talking reincarnation. The wheel of life, as its known.

Judgement day comes at the end of each life, not just the one. You don't stand before a supernatural being, you stand if front of yourself and access what you need to advance further down the path that eventually pays off this debt. Your next life will have these lessons waiting for you.

Haven't you ever wondered why bad things sometimes happen to good people?

The afterlife. The afterlife is actually closer to your true nature than this earthly life is. Being in human form brings many limitations, the least of which is the veil that comes with it which prevents you from seeing anything other than the world itself. This is to keep you focused on what you have to do here.

Death is more like a revolving door than a one way street. You come and go many times until your debt is paid off. (It is balanced by good deeds and compassion), and the desire not to create more debt. Once you get a little taste of the other side, your attraction to this world will start to let go. If you're not attracted to the world, you're not inclined to produce anymore of the debt that keeps you here.

Those who are mature in their spiritual selves are free of this world, but they often return to it, not as a slave, but as a light for others to follow.

Because, they were once just like you.




x

 

There are many denominations that preach the bible as it was written. There are some who stray from the point the bible raises, which to me it can be said are not true christians. My preacher gave a sermon a while ago, which I have just listened to again today on the train, which said that there are indeed many churches and spiritual leaders who do not preach on the bible, who are telling false truths, giving false hope.

Jesus Is the Son of God, God in human form, He said to worship the Heavely Father, that no one shall come to God except through Him. If Jesus did not say worship me, it was because He did not need to. He is the Saviour, He gives hope, life and meaning. As the son of God, he is God, it only makes sense to worship Him. How could you not worship a man who performed such miracles, died to save human kind, provides eternal life with God through Him?

You get to God through Jesus, that is amazing and worthy of praise in my opinion.

 

I am not upset, I have had this and worse said to be many times, so I how what it is like! The only thing that annoys me is when people slag of Jesus and God, it show's their ignornance, if people don't believe in God fine - accept that people do and show some respect to them!

I believe in what Jesus taught is right, it has made me a better person, I don't just believe in God to get into Heaven, I am not worthy of Heaven. I don't actually think that much about it, I don't pray to get into Heaven, I pray to be forgiven, to be a better person, to help others and to live a good life.

I also say 'you' alot to mean non-christians, so don't worry about that!

Yes, everyone can know God, that is what He wants! The bible is His word, showing how to live - providing guidance and hope. Which I think helps to grow spiritually, there is always something new to learn from the bible and has helped to make a difference. I don't know of anyone that has been hindered because of the bible.

I did not mean to sound defensive, I just read back over my post and it does seem a little angry! That isn't what I meant! I am happy to talk about christianity if someone wants to listen and not just plainly say it is wrong and not listen to both sides!

 

This came up at the end of my Catholic RCIA meeting when someone asked ifwe should ever stop praying for a dead persons soul. TThe priests there didn't really have an aswer, but one said somethign that I really liked. It was this: "I think that praying is good. I think we should all just hope that God's mercy is as great as we say it is".

 

The writers of the bible have taken considerable liberties with what Jesus is supposed to have said. You must remember that the NT was written years, sometimes decades after the fact. Disciples or not, most of what Jesus said to them was over the heads of these simple men. They knew how to imitate what Jesus did, but lacked the inner vision themselves. This is evidenced by how they wrote what they did. They don't express their own divinity, they merely record that of another.

You get to God by becoming like Jesus, not by going through him as an intermediary.

It is a mistake to elevate Jesus to something exclusive like "Son of God". We all are. The only real difference is the realization of this vs a duelistic view that religion locks it's followers into.

God is not apart from you. But as long as you carry that belief within your heart, that will be your reality.

The Kingdom opens, when that belief closes.



x

 

Yes, but you also see that Jesus told them that whoever believes in Him will be persecuted, so rightly or wrongly that may have had an effect on when the disciples could write what happend! Also, if you were in the presence of miracles, would you forget so easily? Especially if they were chosen as disciples - God would have still been with them when they wrote the New Testament - hence the bible being the word of God.

 

A more likely translation is whoever follows Jesus, the radical, will hang right along with him.

You have to remember that Jesus was put to death for political reasons instead of religious ones. Rome took a dim view of anybody coming around and stirring people up. As many jews thought he might be the messiah, they were willing to back him because they thought he could deliver them out of Roman bondage.

Now, I'm sure the Rabbis of the day didn't mind seeing this ballsy young man go away either. He certainly represented a threat to their authority. "Forgive your enemies"? Who had ever heard of such a thing? These people were raised to give and eye for an eye. To turn the other cheek was almost heresy to them.

And indeed, the jews still wait for the arrival of their Moshiach.

As for the diciples, even the best minds cannot remember what happened years ago with a 100% recall. Not then, not today. It is human nature to embellish stories as they're being told. Adding personal touches here and there.

Many centuries have come and gone since these men wrote down what they experienced. It has gone through many translations and has no doubt seen it's share of errors. There is evidence to suggest that certain books were actually taken out of the bible by the early church as being too mystical for the common man. The priests wanted these for themselves.

Rumour has it, these books are still locked up in the vault at the Vatican.

But we have other clues about what these missing books might contain. The Dead Sea Scrolls, and especially the Nag Hammadi. Quite mystical, and unlike anything in the modern bible.

The Gnostic Christians are the only true heirs of Jesus' deeper message, and even they struggle with it.

I know you believe God as a seperate power from yourself, but you also believe that God can speak through people. Would it be beyond belief, if I were such a person?

I reference no books. I follow no religion. And I certainly fly in the face of what is held to the "the gospel truth".

Yet, I know your Jesus very well.



x

 

Jesus was crucified because He was the son of God, for Blasphemy. Yes they probably didn't like the idea of if He was telling the truth, He would have greater power than them. But Pilate believed Him!

It was predicted that this would happen, Jesus wasn't surprised!