They can't all be wrong, can they ???

VG

Sorry I presumed since you were making statements that you had at least a little background knowledge, sorry I did not realise the level of your ignorance and am now unsure how deep that ignorance is.

I mean if you had a bit of knowledge you wouldn’t need the explanations you are asking for so maybe it would be better if you did some research first before posting?

Anyway let’s gauge your knowledge

Do you know what the main political parties are in the UK?

Do you know anything about the change of economic ideas in the 1980 from Keynesian based models to neoliberal ones?

Do you understand the main tenets of neoliberalism?

Do you understand the changes in views from Labour to New Labour?

Do you understand how the financial crash came about and what the reaction to it was in the UK (and elsewhere)?

I can suggest some books if you wish?

 

VG

"The UK’s infrastructure is struggling both social (NHS, welfare etc) and physical (public roads buildings) due to a right wing supported austerity policy"

It is better if you have a bit of knowledge about the UK, its political and economic history but I’ll try and explain in simple terms that might be understood by someone with a passing knowledge of the UK.

Thatcher leaned toward neoliberal ideas, neoliberalism is opposed to public services and wishes to privatise them, it believes in markets and little government interference.

So certain neoliberal leaning governments have encourage and imposed ‘market’ based structures on public services or ‘outsourced’ and privatised them where they could.

One way that was thought up to do this was the policy of austerity cutting payments to public services and capping local government grants.

This has resulted in falling standards, maintenance and the withdrawal of other services and has resulted in rising homelessness, frozen benefit payments, overcrowded school classes and excessive waits for hospital treatments.

The reason given for this was to cut the debt but it doesn’t actually make economic sense as reports have shown right leaning government austerity policies have reduced GDP growth every single year since 2010. After compounding this effect year-on-year, the effects of austerity are expected to have suppressed the level of GDP by almost £100 billion in the 2018/19 alone.

The thing is that it is much easer ti push privatisation on what seems like a failing institution than on a successful one something like the NHS has been successful but if it were put under pressure it might be seen as less so and 'the people' might accept its 'reform' in the form of privatisation.

Its not conspiracy its ideology

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As to migrants supposedly ‘overburdening’ the system it’s a red herring made up by austerity supporting right wing politicians right pundits and the media to deflect blame from themselves onto others.

Under existing EU rules EU migrants can stay for three months in which they cannot claim benefits, to stay longer after that they have to be: in work; or actively seeking work with a genuine chance of being hired; or be able to show they have enough money not to be a burden on public services. Apart from that, evidence of benefit abuse or fraud is grounds to exclude or expel a person.

But the thing is that such migrants contribute to the country

The average European migrant arriving in the UK in 2016 will contribute £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits over their time spent in the UK (assuming a balanced national budget), …By comparison, the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution in this scenario is zero. (Oxford Economics)

The thing is that the social infrastructure in the England and Wales is not overwhelmed it is under supported.

 

VG

Sorry I’m not sure what you are trying to explain here, who is the European socialist union?

Which hard borders are you talking about?

What is facing economic collapse?

Again maybe you need to do a bit of research? First ask yourself what that might be?

 

Lolz, Plagiarizing by not linking a report from a think tank Paid for by the Migrant Advisory Commitee that simply multiplies the extra rax paid by people on a working visa by life expectency, without deducting any actual costs to the public and this is their "most up-to-date data and sophisticated modelling techniques" that 78,000 figure would only be true if they stayed on a working visa their entire lives and never used any publuc services

So, well done

Here us the link for anyone that cares

The Fiscal Impact of Immigration on the UK

 

So no surprises here, 3 long winded posts in a row full of personal attacks that never actually answer the question

So by "right wing supported austerity policy"

You are still blaming the Thatcher government for everything, ironically because you probably lost your job to a polish immigrant at that time.

It seems you are the one that needs to look up what austerity means

Still unclear what you mean by supported, im guessing that would be your way of still trying to blame the conservatives when Labor is im power.

The casual reader just needs to see you didnt link your source material, but aside from that the nearest attempt to explain how migration would be independant of the strain on infrastructure is to bizarely inform me that eu citizens can stay in the UK for 3 months without working.

Again, you started off with a premise that is blantantly false; assert that somehow the strain on infrastructure can only be caused by .....let me quote that one more time for fun... a "right wing supported austerity policy"

Or in simpler terms you start of with an assertion that bpames Thatcher, excludes immigration numbers, your own assertion you just pulled out of thin air, then ask us what immigration has to do with an assertion you have excluded everthing else that doesnt include blaming Thatcher from

 

VG

LOL you really should know what plagiarism is before accusing people of it, I didn’t pretend it was my own work and the fact that I cited who it was from meant you could find it which was why I gave the citation.

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Next - The Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) is an independent, non-statutory, non-time limited, non-departmental public body that advises the government on migration issues. [Gov.uk]

And - Oxford Economics was founded in 1981 as a commercial venture with Oxford University’s business college to provide economic forecasting and modelling to UK companies and financial institutions expanding abroad. Since then, we have become one of the world’s foremost independent global advisory firms, providing reports, forecasts and analytical tools on more than 200 countries, 250 industrial sectors, and 4,000 cities and regions.[Oxford Economics]

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Read the full report – it is a download

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VG

OK let’s try and unpack this

LOL – this is an old trick ask for explanation and detail and then when it’s given dismiss it as long winded - shame on you VG I thought you were more subtle.

Anyway what question did I miss, I’d be happy to answer if I have missed something?

What ‘personal attack’?

So by….what - you stopped mid-sentence, what was the point you were going to make?

I did say you needed to look up and research certain things did you do that?

One was - Do you know anything about the change of economic ideas in the 1980 from Keynesian based models to neoliberal ones?

I’m not blaming the Thatcher government but the economic model shift that occurred at the time from Keynesian to neoliberal.

What are you going on about - why would it be ironic if I lost my job?

Actually the neoliberal reforms did cause the closure of the local steel works and many did lose their jobs and it did devastate the area (it still hasn’t recovered) but I ‘got on my bike’ and found work in Europe. Didn’t go to Poland but did work in many other places including France, Greece Spain as well as the UK.

Well here is a dictionary definition - difficult economic conditions created by government measures to reduce public expenditure.

The thing is that the governments did not need to bring in difficult economic conditions and as said the measures actually had an adverse effect on the UK economy and especially an adverse effect on the more disadvantaged in society.

Again did you do the research I suggested it would help you understand?

Do you understand the main tenets of neoliberalism?

Do you understand the changes in views from Labour to New Labour?

Sorry this is rather disjointed and so difficult to read – thing is that many leavers have suggested that people from other EU countries were coming here to scrounge off the UK welfare system and I was pointed out that wasn’t correct.

LOL are you talking about the source material I cited and you found…..

In what way is it ‘blatantly false’ you’ve presented nothing so far to show that it is – I’ve pointed out that the strain on social and public services is down to an austerity policy starving those services of funds – so far you haven’t disputed that.

I mean here is something from the BMJ on the impact of the austerity policy - Between 2010 and 2014, the NHS in England has only had a real term annual increase in government funding of 1.3 per cent, despite rising patient demand and healthcare costs.

And real term spend on social care has fallen by 1.19 per cent every year during the same period, despite a significant projected increase in the numbers of over 85s–those most likely to need social care–from 1.6 million in 2015 to 1.8 million in 2020, say the researchers.

It has been suggested that -The squeeze on public finances since 2010 is linked to nearly 120,000 excess deaths in England, with the over 60s and care home residents bearing the brunt

Again but sorry this is rather disjointed and so difficult to read –

What assertion have I pulled out of thin air?

You still have not answered the question - what has EU migration got to do with the right wing supported austerity policies?

 

Phew. I only have to read half of it now.
Edit: oh no, he's fixed it from being a strikeout.

 

VG

It is clear you still need to do a bit of studying to get up to speed. I did suggest you look into certain issues but from what I can tell from you posts you don’t seem to have done that.

I can go through them with you if you need help.

You could also try and be a bit more focused the last post was rather disjointed and difficult to read in parts. I presume it must have been written at speed and without much thought, we all do that, but maybe you should do a read over before posting.

 

DON'T LET EM CHANGE YOU VG!

 

Hang In There VG......We Are All Suffering Equally......



Cheers Glen.

 

Yeah hang in there VG - really looking forward to your comeback – oh especially could you answer the questions….

Cheers Balbus

 

Stick to your guns mate, unload some whoop-ass with contradicting facts. You can't beat facts.

 

Thanks Irminsul - I will - and i have plenty more facts where my others came from

Cheers

 

Oh I see...
You're a super moderator now.

 

LOL

But of course I’m taking the piss – I mean we have these pompom waving cheerleaders that haven’t a clue and couldn’t think up any counter arguments for themselves if their lives depended on it - please get some self-respect, you just look silly in those blond pigtails and tasselled bikinis.

 

Well for the record I was telling VG to stick to his guns and unload whoop-asses with contradicting facts. one of my personal favorite styles of arguing.

 

Irminsul

LOL….oh sorry I can’t stop laughing….oh my…oh wow – how self-delusional can someone be – OK ok alright – DO IT - go on let’s see your favourite styles of arguing.

Come on then – stop dancing around with the pom pom’s and step up to the plate OVER TO YOU – knock us out

Or will you run away or give an excuse?

 

Oooohhhhh - seems I've stirred up a hornets nest and set the natives at each other's throats !!!

 

I don't even know what you're talking about in here so I have nothing to argue about sorry.

In theory however, it is possible for them all to be wrong.