This stuff is serious, DO NOT FUCK AROUND!

Your not the first to doubt Castanada- -lots of people believe he wrote - if not the whole trilogy> at least > A Seperate Reailty< in a NYC hotel room

Speaking just for myself- -When I read his stuff a 100 friggin yr ago ,I thought it was great stuff, and still do- -as to his credibility, I might have cared long ago- -now I consider his work enlighting and well written- He could have written it standing in a shower stall with a umbrella for all I care, but IMO its interesing. With all the hacks out there at least he was creative in the subject matter

peace*
jack

 

agree with jack. perhaps you should read some of castaneda's books as well before your next experience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

 

It is very well written and the material is quite mind-expanding through the unlearning of the protagonist. There is no doubt reading the books subtly changes your perception even if you are skeptical to what you are reading. The captivating and mystical nature of his stories definitely caught on with the new-agey crowd. In the 70s and 80s many people took his work quite seriously and ended up disappointed when they traveled to study with Yaqui teachers and found out there was no Don Juan Matus and there is little traditional framework in the Yaqui tradition for peyote, which doesn't even grow in the surrounding Sonoran Desert. The mysticism that the Yaqui shamans practice is way different than what Castaneda described. Carlos ended up being quite the trickster himself, but his mastery of storytelling is made clear in these novels. The two most riveting were Journey to Ixtlan, and The Art of Dreaming. The interesting thing was that reading "The Art of Dreaming" stimulated some very intense dreaming experiences for me. The time I read this book i was lucid dreaming often, and unfortunately meeting some things that weren't very nice. I still have yet to read 4 books in the series. I will probably pick those up at some point or another.

 

Im about halfway through his first book (i think its his first anyway) The Teachings of Don Juan, A Yaqui Way of Knowledge. Im pretty captivated, i dont really care if its real or not. I think it was one of the many things that helped prepare me for the experience. Does anybody else notice how much people on this forum debate about whats real and whats not real? That is a rediculous debate, do any of you actually believe that you know for sure without a doubt whats real and whats not? If you said yes, im sorry but you are lieing to yourself.

 

The book only strengthened your desire to be deceived. San Pedro did the opposite, and showed you the truth as is evident in your story. Don't get too emotionally attached to a self-admitted fraud's fantasy and mistake it for an actual guide. You'll only hurt yourself like countless others did doing the same.

Im sure most of the people in this forum are having that debate with themselves at some point.

To be perfectly honest I don't know what is less real than a proven fabrication. Alas, truth can be hidden amongst lies. That's how cons and demons work.

 

thats also how artists work

 

totally.

 

This sentence wins.

Seriously though, doing stupid shit in the middle of nowhere is cool, doing it around high things with tripping people who should obviously not be on psychedelics, and are obviously not prepared to take psychedelics anyway, is stupid.

This is bullshit anyway though. Can you explain what charges they booked you on?

I remember reading somewhere (maybe wikipedia, I don't know) that castaneda was in the anthropology stacks of a UC library during the times he said he was in don juan's hut. I'm pretty sure it was meant to be a fictionalized study on psychedelics and the human search for immortality and lots of other things, in a fun way.

*edit* this

However, the stupid game that followed, with various books by various people playing various games, refusing to admit the obvious fact that it was just a story, was pretty pathetic.

Hopefully your trip is less stupid and/or made up than his, too

 

I'm pretty sure he was craftily ("artiscitally") admitting that this whole story is made up.

But it was obvious from the start, he's not quite the artist he fancies himself.

 

I'm willing to admit when I first picked them them up I believed, and wanted to believe in every word. looking back It seems like I got disinterested as the series went along further along. The books just made less and less sense. At first it was turning western paradigmn on it's head and redefining reality for the protagonist and the reader. But it just got too indulgent as a fantasy. The inability to understand some of what Don Juan was saying lost it's profundity. As it went further and further it became more of a charade, a game and less a work of art. Castaneda went from con artists, to con in a matter of a couple volumes. What sickened me was all the cult stuff that came out of this in the 80s, and it's modern incarnations that still exist like the Cleargreen retreat center. He opened the door for other predatory figures to follow in his footsteps and make similar exploitations to become wealthy off of. Even to the end his followers wouldn't believe that he himself was a fraud by his own admission.

 

more than likely you are 100% right omacatl, but im enjoying the book. Sure i want to believe that everything in it is true, but i kinda started to doubt that in the first chapter when he starts talking about diableros. Its a fun book to read, i understand its a story.

My trip report however, is not a story, all that shit really happened. Part of me wishes it never did, but i also know thats what needed to happen to teach me what i needed to learn. I understand how crazy it sounds, and i dont need you to believe it, maybe you will understand someday. Was it stupid? Yea it was kinda stupid, even with all the research ive done, my previous expereinces with entheogens, and the mental preperations (meditations, smudging with sage and sweetgrass) we had no idea what we were getting ourselves into, and we did a very strong dose. Me and my buddies were feeling great, but obviously it was way too much for my girlfriend. Yes it was pretty stupid. She almost died. It wasnt just the fall, when she got to the hospital they were saying her potassium levels were dangerously low, that her heart could have stopped! I dont have any idea what caused that, they say it usually only happens in old people. The only charge i have as far as i know is ingestion, the only proof they have of that is what i said. I was very stupid and told them what i did, but i think i can still get the charge dropped, cuz really they dont have any proof. I will get an ingestion charge for thc though, theres no avoiding that but it should just be a fine anyway.


And i didnt say thats how con artists work obviously, i said thats how artists work. I am an artist, I paint, I draw, I sculpt, I make music, whatever i can do to try to commicate what i experience and see in altered states. im not talking about conning people, im talking about teaching them, the same way psycadelics teach me. This is an extremely difficult task, and it is almost like you have to use lies sometimes to really tell the truth. you have to create an illusion, i like to do this visually, not verbally.

I dont care how carlos casteneda gained his knowledge, i dont care if it was by searching his own mind in a library or searching don juans mind in the desert. Thats not whats important, you are missing out on the whole message becasue you are concentrating on these stupid details that really dont even matter anyway.

 

I think you may have me mistaken, i never doubted your trip story.

The whole message is inherently missed anyways havent even completed the series. According to a budy of mine who has completed it apparently the point of life (according to the castaneda books) is to learn how to fly past a soul-eating eagle into another dimension. Whatever that means. Even his hardcore adherents are confused by his works.


Unfortunately the value of the messages or lessons in Castaneda's writing do not
erase the reality of his fraud. You can call these wrongdoings "stupid details" but they are the legacy of the people that were hurt and swindled by castaneda and subsequent predators that followed his actions. He faslely stereotyped native people and played on the spiritual void of the counterculture. He did tell a good story though. I'll give him that.

 

You keep talking like you studied or prepared for a psychedelic experience using this novel. It's just a novel, a story to read for fun on a boring day. I might read it today if I can find a PDF, as this brought it to the forefront of my mind and I've been meaning to for several years. (that and brave new world/doors of perception... I'll pick one, I suppose)

There isn't a message to miss out on in the book, it's just a slightly more abstracted native american version of "fear and loathing in las vegas".

Also, you keep talking about your girlfriend just not being able to handle this, or whatever, while you describe a number of stupid ways you put her in harms way with no preperation at all, while your friends gave you what they say was a "heavy dose" of a drug you don't understand. And you try to make up for not understanding it by saying stupid shit about it just choosing to accept you or not. No. It's a matter of you accepting it, which is, it being a psychedelic that magnifies you, in the end, a matter of accepting yourself. Before embarking on a trip like this, it's your DUTY to make sure that you and anyone else you're leading into this situation is prepared.

You seem to want to think you're some Don Juan S. Thompson, but that's not how it works. A little bit of insanity sometimes happens when you play with this sort of thing, and that's fine, it's some of the most..... sane... insanity there is, if that makes sense. But this "report" is not insanity, it's stupid. Stop doing stupid things, and learn to research and prepare for the drugs (or medicine, depending who you ask.... I think it's both) you take and you give to others.

And again, can you please tell us what charge they booked you on, and maybe your county/state?

 

Omcatl, i know you didnt doubt my report, that part was more directed at Roorshack.

Roorshack, i think i stated very clearly numerous times that i was only about 45 minutes into the book when this was offered to me. I did other research as i do before i do any pshychedelic thru Erowid and other sources. Also i know that this is something that has been used as a medicine, a teacher and a healer for thousands of years in many cultures. So yes i did trust the plant based on that. You are drawing alot of conclusions, you are very confused and your kinda making yourself look likea jackass. Go back and read my posts, i have said now about 4 times if i remember the charge was ingestion, i have also stated that more than likely i can get that dropped becuase it doesnt show in a test so all they really have is ingestion of thc.


Despite the research i did, and all of my preperations, yes you are right it was still stupid. I have already admitted that. I take full responsibility for putting her in that situation. Putting myself in danger like that in pursuit of knowledge is one thing, but you shouldnt involve others until you really know what you are doing. That was a mistake. That is one of the many lessons i learned that night.

 

oh yea, the county/ state, i really dont feel comfortable talking about that for some very obvious reasons, thats a pretty stupid question

 

You where not arrested for drug ingestion. This is a lie.

Either for THC or mescaline.

 

Im in the united states, i dont know where you are but unfortuately people get arrested for ingestion all the time around here. I dont think i should have been arrested, thats why i say (now that im thinking a little more rationally) that i can get the charge dropped. Basically what happened is i was following her down the street, trying to cover her with my hoodie. She was bleeding, so i was freaking out a little bit. A cop drove by and i actually flagged him down (never thought i would do that in my life). She was seriously freaking out at this point, going crazy, she was trying to rip my hair out, and clawing me in the face as i tried to hold her back from doig the same to the cop and keep her covered with my hoody. Meanwhile the dumbass cop is standng there, asking for my name and social and stuff, so I told him how stupid i thought he was for worrying about that when there was a girl bleeding from her face. I threw my wallet at him, and kept telling him to call her mom. He started asking what we were doing of course, and i was freaking out, so i told him. He asked where we had come from, i told him that there was no way I was going to tell him that, and that it wasnt important anyway, what was important is that a girl was bleeding from her face and she needed help. He didnt even know what we were talking about, he was like " well do you inject it or snort it?" I was like "No retard its a fucking cacuts that grows in the desert!" he thought she was on meth or something. Then the paramedics got there. I was so busy trying to talk to the paramedics about what happened that i didnt even really notice they came up and put me in handcuffs. Then before i knew it i was in the back of the cop car. When i asked the cop why i was being arrested he said for ingestion of peyote.

Stop calling me a liar, and go back and actually check my posts before you question me over and over again about the same stuff. You're a dick!

 

There is no such thing as "possession by ingestion" in NY. The cops must administer a drug test to determine if there were drugs in your system, and the only way they can get you to take a drug test is if you,re arrested.

Unfortunately, there is nothing that they can do.
- - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -
However, that changed once you told the coppers that you all in fact swallowed peyote- Now you can be charged, if you were together enough to keep it together- no arrest-
but now, after you freely admitted you were under the influence, the cops can say you swallowed the drugs to get rid of them- to keep from getting arrested- - its a funny -or in your case, a not so funny a loophole that the law uses usually when people swallow bags/ or ballons of dope to keep the cops from finding them.
If you do that> the charge is destroying evidence or under the influence.- -I dont remember where you were- maybe states laws differ on this-?

This interested me enuff to ask a lawyer friend in NY- Its not like I knew the answer here * *

jack

 

How did you not notice?

 

Woahhh that's really trippy she almost died from her potassium levels going too low! I know people can spontaneously die or just die from intense stress so that's not that crazy but I wonder if its connected to the fact that she allowed the people in the ambulance to 'eat her.' Because if they said that it normally only happens to old people then maybe she gave up some of her healing life force/energy to the people in the ambulance and therefore, energy and brain chemistry wise, she experienced the effects of being like an old person for awhile because she psychically healed them. I have no idea though and this is all speculation but shit's trippy! :willy_nilly:

Also I don't think you did anything wrong Tokapelli in your trip. Unless you peer pressured your gf into dosing (which I doubt you did) then it was solely her responsibility for having taken the drugs. It's not

Because in the end there is no way to be completely prepared! That's the beauty of psychedelics, you never can be. There's wayyy too many variables in the experience, you just have to jump in! All you can do is provide basic knowledge about them and ALL the risks involved. If your gf knew the risks and effects of mescaline and still did it then it's not your fault. HAHa actually never mind, even if she didn't know the effects of mescaline and still took it it would have been her fault anyways. Taking drugs you know nothing about is one of the stupidest things one can do drug wise haha I learnt that the hard way once when I popped some pills a friend of mine gave me without knowing what they were or even looking at them! bad idea lolz but that's another story :2thumbsup: haha

Also with psychedelics there's no way to even know for sure if someone is prepared to do them, people are too unpredicatble. For me personally however, I'm really good at being able to tell if a person's personality is 'suited' for psychedelics or if their 'ready' yet for them. Confronting yourself and accepting and letting go of yourself can be one of the hardest experiences on psychedelics but I find there are quite a few personality characteristics that you can notice in a person that would make them more likely to try to desperately 'hold on' to their ego, or think negatively and go into a bad trip, as opposed to letting go and opening one's mind to infinite bliss and positivity :sunny: