Top Ten (Failed) Proofs For God's Existence

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by relaxxx, Jul 15, 2015.

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  1. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhlTXnM625w
     
    ChinaCatSunflower02, Aug 13, 2015
    #41
  3. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

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    "Cause and effect" suggests a reason for everything. The reason is the cause.
     
    rjhangover, Aug 13, 2015
    #42
  5. Dejavu~

    Dejavu~ Members

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    And it is...?
     
    Dejavu~, Aug 16, 2015
    #43
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  7. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    and the cause before that....and before that....before that....and around and around we go.....!
     
    Moonglow181, Aug 16, 2015
    #44
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  9. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

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    It is what it is.....
     
    rjhangover, Aug 16, 2015
    #45
  11. Dejavu~

    Dejavu~ Members

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    But what is it? :-D
     
    Dejavu~, Aug 16, 2015
    #46
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    In order to have a cause you need a reason.

    In order to have a reason you need a cause.

    They arise mutually.
     
    MeAgain, Aug 17, 2015
    #47
  15. Dejavu~

    Dejavu~ Members

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    No way! I was caused before I knew it. :-D

    Sure. But I still can't see that causality suggests there is a reason for everything when there's no first cause.
     
    Dejavu~, Aug 18, 2015
    #48
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  17. MeatyMushroom

    MeatyMushroom Juggle Tings Proppuh

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    It's divisive. There's a reason for everything if you're looking for one.
     
    MeatyMushroom, Aug 18, 2015
    #49
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  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Don't think of things as separate events and you will have no reason to find causes and effects.
     
    MeAgain, Aug 18, 2015
    #50
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  21. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    the domino effect? Just stand them back up and push them the other way......:D
     
    Moonglow181, Aug 18, 2015
    #51
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  23. Dejavu~

    Dejavu~ Members

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    Are you sure? I felt sure in assuring meagain that "In order to have a reason you need a cause" but it's not true. :-D You only "need" to exist to have a reason. ( Which is what I took him to mean. )

    It's alright. I'm not overly concerned. ;-D But do you think there's a reason for everything? In the eventuality of infinity, I can't see a need for one.
     
    Dejavu~, Aug 19, 2015
    #52
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  25. MeatyMushroom

    MeatyMushroom Juggle Tings Proppuh

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    Same thing though don't ya think?

    Properties of language, "need" not as in needy, but as in depending on if you separate
     
    MeatyMushroom, Aug 19, 2015
    #53
  27. Dejavu~

    Dejavu~ Members

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    Nah, since I don't equate existence with causation necessarily.
     
    Dejavu~, Aug 19, 2015
    #54
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  29. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Cause and Effect is complicated.

    We can say that something is caused by something else, but if so then the two elements must be connected in some way.
    If they are connected in some way, then they are merely different aspects of the same thing and there is no need for the one element to cause the other as they are the same thing.

    If we contend that the two elements are not connected in some way, then how can the one cause the other? If the second depends upon the first how can the first cause the second without some sort of relationship? If that was possible, then anything could arise from anything.

    As this is not the case we must fall back to the realization that there is a connection between cause and effect, but the connection is only the attention that is paid to one side or the other of the same cause effect unity.

    The cause and effect phenomenons are not separate events and the first thing that causes the effect on the second thing is really not two things, but one. Ad infinitum.

    Thus there is no creator God separate from creation.
     
    MeAgain, Aug 19, 2015
    #55
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  31. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    No separate, but some things do not fit right next to each other in the same puzzle, so they repel each other....

    Hey, you
    yeah...

    I think you belong over there
    oh, oops...excuse me...

    lol
     
    Moonglow181, Aug 19, 2015
    #56
  33. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    nothing has to be provable to exist or not exist. what is not known, is simply not known.

    what we can safely say, god or no god, is that some things happen more often when other things happen first.
    that's it. that and that some things happen more often then others.

    we can assign probable causality, but its still a matter of statistics and degree.
    that's what i meant by "is determinism even a thing?"

    yes some things pretty obviously seem to result directly from other things,
    and some of these are very very reliable,
    but still all we can honestly know, is the degree, however great or small, they are probable.

    this whole idea of any proof being absolute,
    no proof is ever final, because there is always more waiting to be discovered,
    and when it is, new evidence often requires new 'conclusions'
    (or perceptions or ways of looking at things)
     
    themnax, Sep 3, 2015
    #57
  35. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    Cause and effect is to manifestation what Imagination is to Will is to manifestation
     
    ChinaCatSunflower02, Sep 5, 2015
    #58
  37. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    It's pretty obvious to anyone who has done or analyzed a study that the parameters in which we test, measure or observe things is never comprehensive. But if looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, why should we refrain from calling it a duck?

    We would never discover anything if we didn't suggest larger implications to specific results.
     
    guerillabedlam, Sep 5, 2015
    #59
  39. MeatyMushroom

    MeatyMushroom Juggle Tings Proppuh

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    I think I get ya, but I see Will being closer to cause and manifestation as the effect?

    If you wanna draw those lines at all
     
    MeatyMushroom, Sep 5, 2015
    #60
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