Top Ten (Failed) Proofs For God's Existence

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by relaxxx, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. Riotgirl18902

    Riotgirl18902 Banned

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    Having and being are the same. Being in our conscious terms is considering and emoting sensational terms. To have love is to love. Giving and receiving then are identical in terms of being. Ours is always a collective bargain and our cause is never distant from ourselves. Attainment is an illusion that makes being seem illusive.
     
  2. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Not so complicated to me. That picture of the little boy dead in the surf sums it up for me. Times 100s of thousands only adds to it.

    Thanks big guy--we're doing just fine here. Drop by one day, if you can spare the time.
     
  3. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    I called Imagination the equivalent to the cause, because the Imagination is the aspect that is the very first seed of the manifestation, which is the Thought. Before you know what you want to manifest, you have to be able to imagine and visualize it first.

    The Will is the effect that's put into play once the visualization happens. This can be a combination of things, such as doing every day things and/or rituals that surround the first image of Imagination.

    But yeah it's just where you choose to draw the lines.

    You could also argue that the Imagination and Will are both the cause, and the manifestation and its consequences would be the effect.
     
  4. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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  5. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The Wired article is pretty lame.

    The scientific method is based on the Hypothetico-deductive model:

    The Alexander Fleming example is meaningless. It ignores the fact that once the growth of the penicillin was observed the scientific method had to be employed to find out why so that it could be repeated. For example what mold contaminated the bacteria? What kind of bacteria? What was the temperature, moisture content, and other environmental factors? Etc.

    The Albert Michelson and Edward Morley experiment falsified their hypothesis and led to further work in the field of light. This is a perfectly acceptable result of a scientific experiment.

    His Beta decay example makes no sense. Someone found that the energy should be constant according to one hypothesis and it wasn't, so a new hypothesis was developed that better explained the observation. That's called science, happens all the time.

    He has no idea at all on how the science of astronomy works.
     
  7. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    How about experimentation by trial and error? That requires no Scientific Method.
     
  8. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Trial and error is one type of science.

    You observe that car runs poorly (an older car you can still work on), so you develop an idea as to why. Maybe it's not getting enough fuel, so you replace the fuel filter and make another observation. Still runs bad, you have falsified one theory. Maybe the spark plug gaps are off, so you readjust the gaps. Make another observation. Still runs bad. Try something else, choke may be sticking. Oil that puppy and observe again.

    Aha! now it runs better.

    Maybe you researched why engines run bad before you started. Maybe you wish to test your results for repeatably so you gum up the choke mechanism and make another observation, runs bad again, re-oil and it runs better. You have confirmed your solution.

    You could go further and ask a friend to gum up the choke on his car and see if the result is the same as your result.

    Trail and error is basic science. You have made an observation(s) and searched for repeatable reasons to confirm or deny your guess as to why that observation occurred or what it meant. You did not rely on dogma, spirituality, magic, or folklore; you found out what worked and why by trail and error experimentation that could be repeated by anyone with the proper mechanical aptitude needed to work on a car.
     
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  9. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    Alchemists and Magicians are using Trial and Error all the time.
     
  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Unfortunately their results are not repeatable in controlled situations.
     
  11. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    Which aspects? Have you practiced either of the two? No one actually knows the truth about the physical Philosopher's Stone as if it was actually discovered it would have been kept secret so as to not completely ruin economy itself, and the spiritual/internal form of Alchemy is completely legitimate. Meanwhile, Magick produces results. Don't make this argument until you experiment with those practices yourself.
     
  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Well, give me some simple magick thingy I can perform which has given you results so I can see if I, or others, can repeat it, just to see if the concept of magick is valid. I can give you thousands of simple scientificly repeatable experiments for you to try.

    Now, I am not saying that magick is impossible, just that I have never seen it validated as a legitimate process for achieving results as well as the scientific method.

    And even if it is possible, that doesn't degrade the scientific method to any degree.
     
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  13. ChinaCatSunflower02

    ChinaCatSunflower02 Senior Member

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    You can find your own methods which are suitable for you.

    The Scientific Method isn't bad, it's just not THE only possible way to go about things.
     
  14. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    no "proof" of anything, is ever absolute and final. that's just not the way science, nor the universe we live in, works.
    there is only a reasonable level of confidence, where a sufficient preponderance of evidence exits.

    (things can and do happen, which contradict every reasonable means of predicting them. and sometimes we can even nudge them a little bit. the problem with that approach, is that outside of science, technology and nature, none of these things are very reliable, and thus have use, only when more reliable methods are unavailable)
     
  15. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

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    The reason is the effect of the cause. There is nothing that exists without a cause.
     
  16. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    that sounds like a reasonable thing to assume. its still an assumption. there is no way to test the whole of it. only isolated parts.

    nothing "has to" exist at all. we seem to exist anyway.
     
  17. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

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    The cause dictates everything that exists. It "has to" exist, or it wouldn't. Without a cause, you wouldn't exist. The cause is the reason, you are the effect. Cause and effect is fact, not theory. Two always comes after one on the time line.
     
  18. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    you're just repeating a claim. you've offered no evidence to support it. (neither have i, but that's the point)
     
  19. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

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    Here is the evidence.....You are the effect of your parents fucking, which is the cause. You could not exist otherwise.
     
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  20. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    the body i live in is. has nothing to do with who or what i am. and again you've only illustrated one isolated point. but at least you've finally condescended to do that. an elephant could still be a tree or a snake on that basis.
     

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