Truth And Justice

I still don't understand what you mean.

 

Yup, guys like u deserve comments like that, and glad to see u appreciating it. :H

Thank you, but u just keep praising me, without giving any good response.

 

Ok. Faith as a human emotion may be observable and objective. But I don't think that's all you're arguing. The things people have religious faith in are not objective, therefore each person's faith is different, and not objective. If a fundamentalist looks at the world and says "I have faith that god created this in six days," he thinks that is objectively true. That truly happened. Same with the hindus, buddhists, jains, taoist, etc. Everyone thinks (at least the major ones) that their religion is objectively true. This cannot be. There is no more evidence for one than the other, so none of these views is objective. The scientific explanation is objective because it neither assumes the presence or absence of a creator of some sort, or whatever other divine being. It doesn't address it. By addressing only things there are evidence for, science can be objective. Science is objective, because what is true in science is true for everyone, not just the scientists. Science does not require faith because it has logic and reason. No faith or trust will be broken if expected results do not occur. Just repetition and evaluation.

 

Me, too. If she quoted something from the bible, would she be banned or told that she should be thinking for herself and that quotes are "weak" or a "crutch"?

 

I think the problem might be that many christians use the bible quotes in response to arguments without any logical arguments or thoughts from their part. That seems to be the trend in other forums as well, from what I have seen and they were criticized in these other forums as well.

That could be why putting only bible quotes are banned over here.

I don't think putting bible quotes is bad, provided you put along with it logical and rational statements of your own to support your arguments.

 

Erm..
I think that's exactly what Skip meant with:
Not making *EXACT* bible quote's, but putting them in your OWN words...

 

Thanks for clarifying that point. One of the words that comes up a lot on the various threads is "hipocrite (sic)". In my dictionary, "hypocrite" means pretender, a person who pretends to be better than (s)he really is. Taken literally, that makes most of us hypocrites. On a previous thread dealing with Satan (which I left because it seemed to be going nowhere) I mentioned that one of the early appearances of the Evil One (which I take as an allegory) was as "the Adversary"--an overzealous prosecuting attorney, eager to expose the frailties of humans and then condemn them as unworthy. The implication is that a person is either good or evil, no shades of gray. If we find a flaw, we can condemn the person as evil, or a "hypocrite", and maybe go on to say that all Christians are evil or hypocrites (except maybe Mother Teresa).

But I think some people who use the label "Christian" are good, well-meaning folks.I think of my late parents, for example, who both thought of themselves as Christians. My Dad used to sleep through the church service, but make a visit later to have a personal chat with God. He often expressed doubts about Christianity, religion and God. He was an physically and emotionally abusive s.o.b. and a drunk, but he tried to live a righteous life as best he could and to follow a high standard of ethical conduct in his dealing with others. He taught me to look out for the little folks, the below average, because the others could take care of themselves. My mother also thought of herself as Christian and said her prayers every night, but she told me she did so because that was alll she knew, and taught me to respect people of all relgions, because they all worshipped the same God and were doing the best they could. Neither of my parents knew or cared about the fine points of Christian (or anti-christian) doctrine, and didn't think too highly of those who did. Anybody who talked much about God, Satan, Heaven, Hell, etc., was a fanatic, or at least a little flakey, in their book. They were "live and let live" kinds of people. I never saw iether of them read the Bible or talk about it.

To many Christians, this would have made them less than good Christians, or maybe not Christians at all. It would be far better ,according to some, if they were Westboro Baptists bashing gays and picketing funeral services. To some critics of Christianity, this would have made my parents "hypocrites". In their view, by using the label "Christian", my folks were not only claiming to be something they weren't, but lending their support to the Inquisition, or whatever other crimes have been committed in the name of Christianity. But they did the best they could, without the educations or the sophistication to see the issues.

In the Old Testament, Micah says (I won't quote the passage) nothing more is expected of us than justice, mercy and humility. In the New Testament, Jesus says to love our neighbors--and everybody is our neighbor. As they say in the recovery groups, take what you need and leave the rest. I guess my own religion reflects my upbringing. The webmaster can make the decision whether or not this meets his guidelines.

 

My apologies for saying,
But I really got bored at the second part of your post and had a very hard time finishing reading it.

Anyhow,
the big part I was wondering about is,
how did your old man went for a "personal chat with God?"
I was wondering how that is done,
as nobody seems to have actually spoken, seen, smelled or touched god.

 

Jeez, I don't know, man. The dude's dead, so I can't ask him. Not that I give a rat's ass.

 

Why religions should claim that they are not bound to abide by the standpoint of reason, no one knows. If one does not take the standard of reason there cannot be any true judgement, even in the case of religions.One religion may ordain something very hideous.For instance, the Mohammedan religion allows Mohammedans to kill all who are not of their religion. It is clearly stated in the Koran, "Kill the infidels if they do not become Mohammedans." They must be put to fire and sword. Now if we tell a Mohammedan that this is wrong, he will naturally ask : "How do you know that ? How do you know it is not good ? My book says it is." If you say your book is older, there will come the Buddhist, and say, his book is much older still. Then will come the Hindu, and say, his books are the oldest of all. Therefore referring to books will not do. Where is the standard by which you can compare ? You will say, look at the Sermon on the Mount, and the Mohammedan will reply, look at the Ethics of the Koran. The Mohammedan will say, who is the arbiter as to which is the better of the two? Neither the New Testament nor the Koran can be the arbiter in a quarrel between them. There must be some independent authority , and that cannot be any book, but something which is universal ; and what is more universal than reason ? It has been said that reason is not strong enough; it does not always help us to get the Truth; many times it makes mistakes , and therefore the conclusion is that we must believe in the authority of a church! That was said to me by a Roman Catholic, but I could not see the logic of it. On the other hand I should say, if reason be so weak, a body of priests would be weaker, and I am not going to accept their verdict but I will abide by my reason, because with all its weakness there is some chance of my getting at truth through it; while by the other means, there is no such hope at all.

---Swami Vivekananda

 

This is exactly where my entire spiritual life comes into a fucking heffalump trap... I like You have come to the same conclusion... But if there is a God and Jesus was his son, and this is his church, how in the name of BLUE FUCK? could something like this happen? Yet, it's true... its a purely personal quest. And NOBODY can make any sense out of it except YOURSELF!

This has been the Achilles heel in my whole bloody spritual framework, this is why im not writing a damn book for god sake!

And shit if its personal Y bother right!?

Jesus why am i even here right now wasting my time

GAH!

Either way, thanks for the quotes! I love einstein man!

thanks for the enlightenment!