Tyranny: The greater evil behind the liberals...

:smilielol5:

Oh man, I love you so very much, EarthMother.

:grouphug:

 

Looks like ghost flew the coop.

 

And now for my next trick...

 

I don't get how unfettered capitalism is the best solution to the worlds problems.

High machine productivity + large population can be a dangerous combo. We have a society where a company can make $1000 an hour because of mechanized efficiency, yet the worker makes only $6 an hour.

We're no longer living on a subsistence basis. A large labor force allows people to be replaced at the flick of a hat, giving the employees few rights. We're dealing with big $$$, private ownership, and super technology.

If you can't see the potential for corruption within this system then you are just as dumb as these "liberal zombies".

 

Each CEO is turning into their own dictator. Firing people because they smoke. What's next? Firing people for being overweight?

1984 truly is manifesting itself into reality and no one seems to care or notice. Yet we have intellectuals telling us that these things are not only inevitable, but necessary for our survival. You put someone inside a college classroom and suddenly they think that they understand how the world works. In fact, it gives them an illusion of knowledge and they are only taught of knowledge that only reestablishes this system that is growing and mutating into some kind of disease society. It puffs up their ego and they use this so-called 'knowledge' so that they can boast about it and show how everyone else is 'out of the loop' in reality. When the only thing that we are out of the loop of is a false reality, a fabrication of it.

So few embrace wisdom in these days. They replace it for intellectualism and intellectualism, in the end, isn't very intelligent. It's just a self contained bubble that limits reality to this bubble.

 

Yes, that is precisely the case today.

 

Give a man or woman a fancy title, and 'teach' them fancy 'ideas' and suddenly that gives them the right to tell us how the world is and should function. What is a priest but a man wearing a fancy outfit? Telling us that he understands God more than anyone else. What is a scientist other than a person who 'learns' certain things and then wears a white coat and suddenly, this glorifies the person as though their thoughts far outweigh the thoughts of any other man in the world. No one should have any more say than anyone else. Despite whatever 'knowledge' that they possess. Because most of this knowledge is mostly mental masturbation, something thought up by someone who considered themselves a genius. But when applied to the real world, to reality, it seldom holds up, because it's fabrication. If it does hold up, then it is sheer luck and had nothing to do with their 'knowledge.'

Like a comedian once said (forgot his name), "Your outfit isn't fooling anyone", and either is your title or whatever so-called knowledge these people possess.

What MUST be understood is that this is yet another way to control the masses. "Well, this guy looks like he knows what he's doing. After all, he seems smarter than me, and look at his title, it took him years to achieve it! Who are we to disagree? Us simpleton." Don't we see how this position can be abused, and how it can be used to control? We give up our rights to these people because they have convinced us that they know more than we do. That they are 'more correct' than us. So we give up our brains and let them do all the thinking for us.

I have seen men and women with 6th grade level education completely shatter the ideas of so-called intellectuals in a single utterance, and it's pretty hilarious to watch Wisdom overrides 'facts', always.

Everything we need to learn about reality is IN reality. Not in a book, a thought, an idea, but in reality. Books, thoughts, and ideas are merely extensions of what is true in reality. They are divisions of it. 'Facts' segregates reality; it dissects it and thus turns it into something else because we then attach ourselves to these thoughts rather than to reality itself. Thoughts are mere portraits of reality, but these portraits are not reality itself.

"Don't worry, everything is under control"

Why yes, yes it is.

 

Isn't it interesting that the most orderly people's are the people that we would consider naive and ignorant? How is it that native American tribes work together in such harmony? Sure they have their problems like anyone else, but what makes them succeed in their society? Why do they succeed as they do? Because they live in reality and they understand the importance of self-discovery and spirituality - They understand how 'facts' can bring about illusion - This should be obvious.

We look for the magic bullet in government to get us all united, but the secret behind all of this is to get back down to who we truly are. Spiritual animals. You can see this spirituality growing in all of the activism against WTO and whatever oppressive organization. Intellectualism never did this. The common man does this. The tribal unite accomplishes this.

 

Which is why I'm glad to be meditating again.


Dunno why I stopped.


I had the most wonderful experience this morning.

 

Earthmother if you wish, but there is an old adage about respect having to be earned and I’d have a lot more respect for you if you were a little more honest.

For example you claim you’re willing to debate your views but the thing is you always find some excuse for not doing so, the claim is at odds with the reality.

If you really were willing to debate these things you would, but it seems to me that you are not willing (or unable) to do so, so you simply make up some excuse so you don’t have to.

Doesn’t seem a very honest way to act.

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So instead you simply don’t defend ideas that might not stand up?
The whole point of debate is to see how well ideas stand up to scrutiny. You seem to be arguing that all ideas have the same validity because in you view no idea can stand up to ‘intense scrutiny’, (by which you seem to mean any scrutiny seeing that you refuse to allow even mild scrutiny of your own ideas).
So your view seems to be that all ideas even the weakest that collapses immediately if examined is the same as an idea that really are good and stand up to very well.
I’m quite happy to defend my ideas (and I openly present them for debate) you don’t seem as willing, which do you see as the more honest approach?
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My whole point is that things are not black and white, I’ve argued against the either/or mentality I’ve found here since I first came to the forum.
The problem is that some people, like yourself, refuse to discuss their views and ideas, they don’t seem willing to see if they stand up to scrutiny – in other words they are declaring they’re right and others wrong. Either people accept their views without question or are wrong.
People like Ghost, and you, declare ideas they don’t like as wrong but seem unwilling to see if their own ideas stand up any better or are in fact worse.
That is truly seeing things in black and white.
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People do see things differently, but those ideas can be looked at and examined in open and honest debate.
But you don’t seem to like open and honest debate so all I have to go on is what you do express and those seem to be right wing in character.
If you’re claiming they are not then let us have an open and honest debate about them to find out.
All this sidestepping, subterfuge and double speak seems rather a dishonest way of hiding your views from being examined honestly.
And I have to wonder why? What are you afraid of?
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But you are placing boundaries not me, you are the one refusing to discuss your views.
You claim to understand others views, but are you being honest or is it a hollow claim? We can’t tell because you refuse to discuss it openly.
Someone might claim to know all the secrets of the universe but if they refuse to talk about them how does anyone know they’re speaking truthfully.
I don’t know if you’re speaking truthfully.
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Why?
I’m only expressing what I see, if someone is expressing right wing views they probably hold right wing views. If someone expresses Christian views and regularly goes to a Christian church then they are probably Christian (but maybe they are not but I sure if they are honest someone could ask them and get an honest answer)
What you seem to want is to do, is to be able to express right wing but claim you are not a right winger. Which begs the question why would someone want that and is that the behaviour of an honest person?
If you are not a right-winger why are you expressing right wing views?
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I have my viewpoint and I’m open and honest about it, ask me a question about my political views and I’ll answer it, ask me to explain an ideas and I’ll try to do so.
The problem I have with those that refuse to speak openly or honestly is that it is hard to work out if they actually understand the things they say.
And I get the feeling that the reason they refuse to debate openly is that they don’t.
Please prove me wrong and lets debate your ideas – and without all the excuses you normally give for not doing so.

 

Def
So with what ‘facts’ do you replace ‘there’ facts?

Conspiracy theory?

Ideas that don’t stand up to even the mildest scrutiny but which the faithful believe are true?

Things like Ghost’s rant?

 

the dhali llama and ghandi...liberals. stalin and hitler...conservative.

and if you look at policy, conservatives are quite a bit more fascist. (social liberalism=more free). (social economics=less free). i like the idea of being free and the early 1900's pretty much proved laizze fairre economics doesn't work.

 

I enjoy my faith, thank you very much.

"conspiracy theory," too.


Nothing anyone could say could alter the way I see the world.

That sort of change comes from within.


You can't force people to change what they hold closest to them, Balbus.


Haven't you learned that yet?


Apparently not...

 

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Once more the thread comes back to honesty and the holding and promoting of irrational political ideas that people either refuse to debate or are still believed to be ‘truth’ even when they aren’t defendable against the mildest of scrutiny.

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I mean...

This has been the mantra of the bigot, fanatic and wilfully ignorant throughout history.

If people are unwilling to listen and unwilling to question they will never learn or grow and only be led by childish or irrational bias and prejudice.


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Once again the thread ends with Balbus summarising it like it was the end of a childrens television shows "well kids, what have we learned today".

There's a difference between proving something is true and convincing YOU that it is true. You don't seem to understand the difference. And so often the problem isn't "true" and "not true", its about values. You don't understand or share the values of the people here, you never have, and you probably never will.

Anyway that second paragraph was a shameless attempt to get in someone's sig. Come on people, I've been here for years, make this happen for me.

 

Hipstatic

There is a difference between holding a political idea as true that you cannot defend in any rational way and having ideas that you can defend in a rational way, one is dogmatic the other not.

I’m not sure that there is a perfect political ‘truth’ I’m not that dogmatic, I have ideas that I present for debate and I ask questions of and criticise other people’s ideas. That is the essence of debate, the scrutiny of ideas to see if they stand.

If someone already believes that his or her ‘truth’ is right however badly it stands up to scrutiny then that isn’t debate. It is just someone telling people that their views, values, or version of what is true is better than all others – because they say it is.

Do you honestly think close mindedness and dogmatic adherence to seemingly flawed ideas are good ‘values’ to hold?

To me they don’t have any value or worth and so I wouldn’t want to share them.

 

Absolutely. There are actually very few people who know how to survive WITHOUT all the frills of "higher education" and "capitalism". When I find myself in conversations with the recently college educated I generally feel like walking away in disgust. I got news for them. Ya can't eat a diploma. Seems it is very hard to keep your feet on the ground and your mind in reality when you have been force fed so much fluff for so many years.

 

I am the most honest person I know. Without exception.

Only excuse I need is that you never listen and I don't have time for beating my head against walls.

Dude, why do you feel the need for everything to be scrutinized? Am I picking apart your every statement and idea of yours and ordering you to explain in detail? No. Why? BECAUSE WE ARE NOT MAKING PUBLIC POLICY HERE!!! We are simply sitting at our respective computers being opinionated. And I have voiced my opinions at length. And that's all you're gonna get.
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All ideas DO have the same validity. What makes your ideas more valid than mine? Who are you to judge anyhow? You should know by now if you HAVE to place a label on me, I am a REALIST. That means that I live by the law of REASON and NATURE. I don't live by mans invented laws. So, I'm not gonna fit into any of your categories. I don't need to see complexity in all things. life is verty simple, it's humans who make it complicated. OCD anyone?

Not one friggin' thing.
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Doublespeak? Which is it? Black or white? Right or left? OMG!!! She doesn't fit nicely into a category!!! What are we gonna do?
Dude. Do NOT call me a "right winger". It is personally insulting. If you persist in this attack, I'm gonna hurl in a box and send it to you in the mail.
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Oh, blah, blah, blah. It's called casting pearls before swine. I WILL NOT DEBATE YOU. But I WILL ask you YET AGAIN (even tho you refuse to answer) WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT TO KNOW? Specifically? Because I DO have all the answers to the universe.

 

You seem to have missed my point.

I'll explain it to you.


The whole idea is that people do NOT respond to external stimuli to change their "views." There is not one thing you, or anyone else, could do to change the ideals of another human being.


As I said before, that sort of change arises from careful introspection of the Mind and soul.

Not from trying to pound your Dogmatic political beliefs into the head of everyone in here, simply because you are a moderator. (and quite a poor one, in my opinion.)


DIFFERENT THINGS FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE!!!

 

I found this on the internet, it helps to illustrate my point.