Was Life Better Before The Industrial Revolution?

there is nothing in our universe that requires our own species to survive. i'm sure most of us would like it to. i'd like it. but the reality of nature, that does not exist for our sole convenience, will have more to say about that then we do. the part that is up to us, is to avoid destroying its ability to make our existence possible. as it seems to me, we are heading very rapidly toward a situation where that remains as yet too close to call.

 

i don't think attempting to enforce a one child policy is going to do anything other then create martyrs. the only way i can see, is for governments, or governments to turn a blind eye to others, slipping something into the air or water, that will statistically lower fertility. something that would be completely impartial across all of humanity. not favoring nor exempting on any basis at all.

i would certainly not say there will be no movement on energy and propulsion sources. there is motion now. in all and every direction. good and bad. all you hear about on corporate media might make you think there isn't. or that it all cancels each other out. not so. whether or not its too little too late, will not likely be appearant until its too late. a very great deal really has happened. just such a small amount compared to what every indication says is needed.

we've already seen things no one ever believed could happen get us into this mess. other things difficult to imagine now, are capable of shifting as well.

 

Mozart would answer that if he was still alive

 

i believe i can honestly say, something very much like today's internet could very well have evolved into existence without the use of oil or coal, or even the invention of voice telephony. ever hear of something called the badaut teletype machine? heliotelecommunication could have evolved into helio teletypography (there was a french invention of that sort) which could then have inspired something like the teletype network western union used to opperate, with a teletype in every home instead of a voice phone. as silicon electronics evolved these would have become smarter and smarter 'terminals' until eventually evolving into computers connected by a w.a.n. of w.a.n.s of l.a.n.s. the lans, being equivelant of the kind of party lines our phones were once connected to. all without the invention of either voice telephony nor television.

there is really no absolute that the sequences of technological evolution that have taken place, would have had to have happened the same way at all. many different routs by which we could have arrived at most of the same advantages as now, without many of the same disadvantages, or at least very different ones.

steam conestogas might have been invented, and for that matter, a thousand years earlier then they were. or a cure might never have been found for the rat flea plagues, other then greater sanitation, which as a by the way, poor sanitation which made it possible only existed as the result of religious extremism.

indiginous cultures around the planet might have been able to reach mutual agreements of wide regional areas that might have successfully repelled european invasions.

there's really no end to things that could have happened differently, and ways in which they could have.

it is no more then pure happenstance that we have arrived where we are, by the particular paths that we have.

even coal, steam and electricity could have developed in very different ways in very different cultures, including much earlier ones, just as likely as in later.

ancient glass makers could have invented integrated elecronic circuitry powered by inserting spikes of dissimelar metals into citrus fruit.

ancient grain mills could have accedentally invented hydro-electric power.

and just because things happened one way on this world, doesn't mean some other might not, even far more likely has, followed very different paths to advanced technologies.

somewhere there is a world where people are born with 16 digits, 8 on each hand, who's natural number system, would then be hexidecimal.

possibly a world poor in oil, coal and uranium, but rich in creative innovation.

 

it was both better and worse, in different places. it would certainly be better now, if it hadn't been done wrong though.
and it wouldn't have had to have been a 'revolution', with all that does wrong, if it hadn't been repressed for the thousand years of the middle ages.

 

Internet has definitly made us a different being

 

you know what i think life was better before? i think life was better before technology became a scape goat for the evils of ideological fanatacism.
there is nothing inhierent in technology that requires it to be done as wrongly as it has been done by cultural wrong headedness.
the worst invention was the romantacizing of aggressiveness. that is where everything started going wrong.
not saying there has never been a time or place where it might have been of some value,
but the romantacizing of it, that's what everything being fucked up begins with.
beliefs, ideologies, the rest of it, those are all just excuses.
i don't mean they have to be either, just that that is what is going on.
without fanatacism, the 'revolution' would have been an evolution.
one that while slower, would have started and continued a thousand years sooner,
and gotten us a long ways further, and in ways of far greater value,
then any place we are now.

 

when you call 19th century rebirth of scientific thought and technological development a revolution, you need to understand what it was revolting against.

and that was its repression by one religious fanatacism in particular, and i'm sorry for all it offends, but that WAS christerism.

which during that time, became far form the innocent love cult its founder had started, but had become instead, an overwhelming political force, and for the most part a thoroughly evil and corrupt one.

would we be better off if that repression had continued? of course not. even if the technological developments its ending made possible hadn't happened, we'd still be better of for its ending.

ideological fanatics take note, even the power of a religious fanatacism, does eventually fade.

would we be better off if that repression had never occured? you betcha. we'd already be the space faring civilization several more generations can still only dream about.

and if we'd had that thousand years to develop today's technology over that longer and calmer period that might have existed, and while our entire population was a fraction of what it is today,

very likely none or nearly none of the social and cultural upheavals resulting from that burst of making up for lost time, would be with us today either.

do i resent that thousand year fuck up, that it took a revolution in thinking to make up for? i most certainly do.

i don't blame it on today's christians, nor the followers of other religions, even of those related to it.

so, better or worse off? such a broad question when different people in different places were affected differently by it.

we would be worse off if it had never been able to happen, but we'd be way way way better off, if it had never needed to.

and then as now, it is hierarchal greed, and those less blessed with wisdom, who are influenced by it, who seem to be wishing back what repressed it.

 

no computers !!!... count me out.

 

^ you'd have had to make do with an abacus.

 

Which life is better for who depends on what a person suits best.

A lot of people born and raised in preindustrial times were better suited to life there and probably would find life better IF they could compare to this strange and hasty society.

Most people born in these times and in our western society would most likely not like it better in a time without all these industrial and technological conveniences (and of course our societal freedoms). They have not become just conveniences to us but a way of life, we have adapted to it and it would suck for most to be thrown back in a way of life where we would be busy all day making a living, washing our laundry, cleaning our house without all these machines and stuff.

 

The thing about working all day every day really came in with industrialization. In pre-industrial farming situations, you worked hard sometimes, and at other times there wasn't much work to do. Maybe people were more attuned to natural rhythms of nature rather then to the mechanical clock or the factory whistle.

That said, you're quite right that most of us would not like it much if we were transported back in time.

 

It depends what you did for a living (and the particular circumstances) if you were busy with it all day or not. Farmers for example might have busy times and times where they could take it easier. People that provided a service were often busy all day with that in order to just get a decent meal on the table. Overall life was harder before the industrial revolution, than now after the industrial revolution (in which times were really sucky for the majority of laborers for instance), but I agree most were more in tune with that. And life was often slower paced too But they had far less in comparison and often had to work harder for it to enjoy certain luxuries we now do not see as luxuries anymore. On the other hand they were more in tune with that too.

 

Point taken. And even the thought of pre-industrial dentistry would be a big reason not to want to return to those times. :bigcry:

 

Well, we would eat less sugar But as I understand the bread back then was a large cause for bad teeth (grid in it from the preperation process).

What obviously also plays a factor is our knowledge. You don't miss or crave what you don't know at all (certain care or luxuries). That's why people from that time are most likely better off in that time than we would be

 

Yes - we have reached a level of sophistication that even those at the top of the pile couldn't have imagined in past ages. No doubt there are pros and cons to that. In some ways I think we have become too soft these days, and that gives rise to a whole lot of problems. On the other hand, I like my comfortable modern living as much as anyone. And of course, no sane person would want to return to the levels of ignorance about basic things that existed prior to the scientific age.

Grains of sand and other debris in bread was definitely a cause of tooth problems for people in the past. There are skulls for instance from ancient Egypt that show that the person concerned had severe tooth abscesses, and would very likely have been in considerable pain. Also skulls from medieval England that show a massive amount of decay and plaque build up. Due to a total lack of dental hygiene as well as dietary factors.

 

When my grandparents' generation moved from farms to small towns for factory jobs, they had a choice about it. Had they found industrial life to be worse, most of them had the option of reversing their choice and moving back to the family farm, as long as their parents were alive and living there. I never heard of anybody doing that. Their actions speak louder to me than words.

Winter, for sure. There was nothing going on with crops. Just animal care.

 

Life has always been good for those at the top of any given society. Wouldn't have been good for anyone that had an appendicitis attack 200 years ago.

 

There's something in between people with such an attack and those at the top though I am sure many people had good lifes even in the 'dark ages'. Life has always been good for those who were good at living it

 

^ Funny how things haven't changed much - life is still good for those at the top, and even those in the middle. Not so great for those at the bottom. And living in rich western countries we just don't see the true scale of poverty and misery in the world. We may be aware of it from TV news and so on, but we don't really get to see it, feel it.