What conservatives mean by “traditional family.”

Hitler came from a traditional family. so did Mr Bush

 

So, then corn cob, what is the meaning of "Family Values" per the Government?

Megara, sorry if I was offensive, also. I can't deal with just ideals. I have a family to take care of. They are real, they exist, I would like to have a goverment, if they talk the "Family talk" to "walk the Family walk" and I don't see that.

My dh and I take care of our family, but, when the NeoCons start with the "Family Values" talk, I don't hear anything which really benefits familes in any way. Just benefits conservatives.

 

So you mean One man working outside of the home, one woman staying home and taking care of the house and children?

What about two working parents?
What about gay parenting?
What about the woman working and the man staying home?

There is no TRADITIONAL anything. The traditional family was a myth perpetuated by the middle class, when it formed, trying to emulate the upper class. The VAST MAJORITY of this country have not and never will be able to live up to the ideal TRADTIONAL family, and frankly, I don't think many want to.

 

And what life to children deserve exactly? Who are you to decide? Who is high and mighty enough to actually decide what is best for children, besides the right to not be abused in anyway, or to be neglected (which is also abuse)?

My mother needed a bit of help from the state while she went to school to BETTER MY WHOLE FAMILY. She couldn't raise three children on the measily bit of money she made. And my father, who made a whole hell of a lot and could have easily contributed, didn't. When they had been married, we were all fed, clothed, and had a roof over our heads. But we were abused.

I would gladly, any day of the week, go back to having near nothing with people I love and who love me, than to be "cared for" but not in an emotional sense.

My fiance and I are going to live, basically, pay check to pay check. But we will provide, not nearly the best or what we feel our child deserves, but we will provide.

And we will be no closer to "Ideal" as far as the government is concerned.

 

No name calling.

And you're going to find loving parents in every situation, whether they can truly provide or not. And in the situation we're creating in this country, we're going to be faced with a lot more unplanned pregnancies concerning parents unable to care for their children in a way that any "traditional family values" subscriber (conservative or liberal) would deem proper. And yet, these are the same people pushing for the laws and circumstances furthering the problems they see.

THOSE are idiots.

I just missed a word in your post.

 

Because as a voting body, we don't allow for good comprehensive sexual education, nor free birth control, and yet there's work going on to take away abortion and the right of a woman to walk into any pharmacy to pick up her chosen birth control method.

I'm all for the abolishing of abortion IF we'll allow completely comprehensive sexual education and free birth control methods.

Not all unplanned pregnancies are individual choices. Hell, most pregnancies aren't planned. I was talking about those concerning people not in any position to have children (according to your mondel) but will be forced to have them anyway.

 

Condoms break. Birth control is not 100% effective. And most individuals are not given the information they need to arm themselves against unplanned pregnancies. Mostly because of the ignorance of the parents and the rigidity of the government FORCING abstinance only education on a society that obviously isn't wanting to remain virginal flowers. You can't just blame the individuals here.

Surrounding people with images of sex and lust, but then refusing to arm them with anything to protect themselves leaves them vulnerable and ignorant.

Those preaching "traditional family values" are wanting an all or nothing situation, in which people are not armed with information to protect themselves against unwanted pregnancies, and where most people cannot afford to provide for their families past basic needs when they do decide to have children.

 

Xanax , Valiums..... Xanax Valiums!

 

good response for an adult.

 

I don't think you really understand how the welfare system in this country works. People can't just sign up and collect a fat check. People sign up, then they put their kids in the care of (quite often questionable) people while they attend mandatory programs in which they seek work and/or work-related skills. There's no, "Yes, I would like some moeny, but I don't want to work." program. It doesn't work that way. If you even grew up around any poor people I think you'd know that.

Also, the money they do give people on welfare isn't enough to live on. A homeless person would have a hard time living on it. So poor people have to live in extremely shitty housing, or shitty subsidized housing.

It shows a lot of naivety that you think that people are poor out of laziness.

Another reason that people end up trapped in poverty is a lack of education. Some people could succeed in school if they had the opportunity, but they don't have access to higher education.

There are a lot of people, too, that struggle with literacy. I'm not talking about immigrants struggling to learn the language. I'm talking about people who grew up here and went to American public schools. Not everyone, I'm sorry to say, has the ability to get their college degree and buy that house and 2 cars. Many people go through school and are never diagnosed with learning disabilities.

I think that the problem of functional illiteracy is far more widespread in the USA than people realize.

When Thomas Jefferson said those things that you quoted, literacy wasn't such a huge issue. Now we live in the information age. Now it is a big deal.

 

...said the virgin who thinks he'll never get caught up in the moment.

 

Life isn't that simple. Things happen. Once a kid comes into the world, a parent's focus has to be on how things are, not on how things should have been.

 

No kidding. Most families are forced to live in the real world, not some idealisic utopia where everyone and everything is perfect (perfect is so subjective anways).

 

this is true as of 1997 when the PRWORA went into effect. The current system received widespread condemnation by democrats and was a republican/clinton initiative.

You have 2 years before they 'can' cut your benefits if you do not work. You can get up to 5 years in your lifetime. You can abuse it.

ontop of that, there is food stamps, housing assistance, medicaid...meager, to say the least, but you dont have to work to get everything. It is based on income/family size.

the problem is...most jobs will put you right around the cutoff to earning welfare..yet it is still not enough to live off of. Why work and live barely above what you get for not working? Obviously you cant do it forever...but while you can, why not?

Also, if you have *very* young kids, at least in vermont, you do not have to work. My mother deals with women all the time who keep having kids every 2-3 years so they can stay at home and collect money. The father's are deadbeats...make nothing, the state can't get anything back.

Thats all before you have people act as foster parents to rape the system that way.

Look, as i've said several times, i have NP helping someone back onto their feet, but there ARE people who abuse the system and they should not be allowed to.

which causes more abuses, honestly. Why work the whole time when a lot of your money gets paid back to the state? Easier not to work for 2 years...

where did i say that they were poor because they were lazy?

the oppurtunity to go to college? state tuition + federal grants + working on campus + scholarships(if applicable) covers most costs. I got a free ride to my state college without anything outstanding...rather average high school grades honestly. That was without federal grants and campus work. I guess i dont see this as a huge huge problem.

Now paying for harvard is another thing...but there are a lot of very, very affordable oppurtunities for higher education.

Wont get me disagreeing that our schools suck.

I read a thing today saying that only 31% of COLLEGE graduates in America can read a book and extrapolate on it. Scary.

good point.

 

Very good post! Kudos!

 

Megara. It is obvious that any cheating or stealing is wrong. But, honestly...who is hurting the system more : Someone who collects $400 a month from the government or some CEO embezzling $40,000,000??

Seriously. Priorities, man. If you were in charge of the IRS, you'd be a nightmare for poor people. The rich would LOVE you, since you obviously are more concerned with such a minor infractions whilst turning a blind eye to major offense which affect thousands of pensions and lives.

 

Both hurt the system, and both should be dealt with.

Priorities? I never said that the FBI should stop everything they're doing to hunt down welfare abusers. But as we increasingly have an outrageous deficit, we need to tighten the belt. Where would you rather we start making cuts? Education or on abusers? I know where i'd select.

 

Frankly, I'd like to see governmental cuts made on the salaries of federal politicians that don't actually NEED that money, in the defense system, and the space program. That would clear up a few billion.

 

our space budget is already paltry.

Lets not make us a third world nation in one go.

heck, i might even agree to a higher tax rate if it went to NASA

 

Why the hell do we need a space budget? Shouldn't we deal with our own planet before we keep venturing into space and fuck up another perfectly good planet?