what do you think now of alcohol?

now with the canada trip.


no - actually the jamming thing came from the states.

maybe in your small part of the world there are no musicians to set you guys strait.

how old are you??? lol

you act like such a little kid sometimes. why do you hate me so.

drinking at your sons birthday party - good for you. it is obviously not the end of the world - you are not that important to me. i didnt post in this thread for you alone. i am glad that you read what i have to say and i am glad i was able to get a rise out of you. when people get upset with what i have to say it is because a part of them knows that i am right. if you knew that i was wrong it wouldnt bother you in the least.

we have already had an argument about alcohol in another thread where you made an ass out of yourself. there is no need to repeat that mistake. lets let each other be who we are going to be anyways. i have made my self clear enough. if you havent - just go on posting like everyone really needs to hear how much you despise me. or get over it. i dont care if you dont like me and i dont think that anyone really wants to read about you and your hate on for 3xi.

leave it alone.

 

that is actually a very common trend!

 

My small part of the world? Oh, you mean Philadelphia?
And the numerous bands that I know and have filled
in for, and the classical guitar that I have played in
front of audiences plenty of times? Hmmmm.....yea
I guess I dont have a clue what musician terminology
is all about. Thanks for clearing that up.
3xi, I love arguing with you because I dont argue with
anyone else. Only you can I argue with, because you
come off as a peaceful acid loving psychonaut as well
as a major tightass jerk at the same time, and these
two dont normally go hand in hand.
The fact of the matter is that not everyone who has
a beer every once in a while is a drunk, which is what
you insinuate with your previous post.
There originally was no other argument, but you, being
wrong, as usual, had to find something else to break
apart in order to divert attention away from your
generalizing and, well, wrong post.

 

In case I need remind you of your generalizing post
on which this argument is founded, there you go.

 

lol...

please... go on

 

I think that about sums up your self righteous
holier than thou additude fairly well.
Unless of course you have more mind blowing
opinionated retorts with which to bless us?

 

since i started smoking pot i progressively found alcohol less enjoyable. nowadays i often refrain from drinking but now and then i enjoy getting drunk, perhaps very drunk. yes getting very drunk once in a while can be a lot of fun.

and alcohol can be productive, depending on how drunk you are and what the situation is and simply who you are. lack on inhibitions can lead to great social progress and can let you do things that you normally would stop yourself doing or saying. of course, this effect causes so much grief and problems, but this is usually in the case of alcoholics, whos brains scramble with alcohol. it is also the case with people who arent very wise about their tolerance and get smashed very quickly.

with alcohol there are different stages. the first stage is general loosening, which is the 'light buzz' or 'tipsiness' that almost everyone likes. some people dislike this stage insofar as it makes them want to get more pissed. this is an effect for people who drink weekly or more frequently.

then there is drunk stage where you are rather uninhibited and uncoordinated with possible euphoria and possible disphoria.

then there is the black stage whereby people stop remembering what is going on, begin to ramble and be incoherent, can become violent, and destructive without care or concern for safety and for other people's feelings. in the black stage, people can become maniacal or they can burst forth with waterfalls from the eyes. there is often a rather specific point at which people pass into the black stage, and this can often be identified the next day as the point at which they cannot remember anything.

the first two stages can be very productive, and the first stage does not necessarily detriment musical ability in proficient musicians. loosened inhibitions can make players 'go with the flow' more. but perhaps not 'jive with the vibe'.

the black stage never produces anything positive except maybe a root, but since it is the black stage, the memory is blank of the niceties of the experience, if any.

the drunk stage can lead some people to just make pissing fools of themselves, but some people can be very funny and the most hearty laughter comes from this stage more than any other drug that ive tried. heart laughter is different from the cackling laughter from many psychedelic drugs.


the world is not black and white. relayer is a calm and thoughtful soul. 3xi has a lot to catch up on, and dispite feeling like the older one, is instead simply set in his ways.

3xi, you clearly attacked relayer, notthe othe way around. a wise musician knows that good music or at least enjoyable playing comes from a mindset, not from one's ability to coordinate their hands with their eyes.


yes-alcohol is an escape. but it is sometimes good to escape from self-hindering anxieties and stress. when they return, it is not more than before unless you are drinking with frequency.


i hope my perspective is agreeable and coherent.

 

The reason i asked this question was to hear other peoples opinions on the subject and see how many of you agree with what i said and how many don't. The thing that causes arguements on these forums is that some people try and change other people's opinions, this cannot be done! I think what everyone should do is post what they think and accept what other's think even though you may disaggree...i understand 3xi that you want to help but do you know that just by posting what you think, without criticising, people could learn from that? When you say something to offend someone, already that person has no interest in your opinion. I don't think you are wrong at all, it's just the way you put out your opinions that causes people to dissagree with you. I think you know for yourself that that is true..

 

Defunct, 3xi just does not seem to understand that a person
who has a beer, OCCAISIONALY, is not a technical drunk, aka,
does not rely on alcohol as a crutch in order to get by/enjoy
life. I agree with him as well that alcohol is damaging to your
body, and when used in excess nearly guarentees you will
harm your living situation and your reputation. But Im sorry,
me having some beer at my sons 2nd birthdat party does
not make me a drunk

 

You are right, and i believe you, i accept your opinion. I think what 3xi was saying is that even a small amount of alcohol is damaging, that is his opinion, i accept it...he was wrong by trying to change yours and the way he was intending to do it. Please guys can we learn to respect one another. No matter who started it or what he/she said, by saying hurtful things to others, we are wrong. Nobody is right in an arguement, because by argueing, you are wrong..
(P.L.U.R) is all that matters!

 

Om shanti Defunct! I agree with your last 2 sentences
there. Im done arguing with him, and I refuse to ever
either bring up an argument or involve myself in one
with him ever again.
Thank you for your kynd words, they radiate wisdom

 

"i dont see any benefit to drinking even if it is only a small amount. alcohol is an escape whether or not the person is conscious of it - alcohol is a great way to forget about your problems only making matters worse when the problems dont go away and you dont know how to deal with them because you keep forgetting about them."


Hmm, I've actually heard that alcohol can be quite beneficial on the occasion (Studies show type thing, look it up yourself). Maybe not straight hard alcohol, but a beer every now and then. Drinking at a sons party out of the question? Nah not really. Well, beer is a drink whether alcoholic or not, it's not surprising for adults to just 'drink them'. A lot of people I know who drink beer don't even have the intention of getting drunk, or smashed, they just like their beer, nothing more to be said. They do not rely upon it to make anything easier, except quench their taste and thirst. What escape could they possibly be looking for if they have nothing to escape from at the time of drinking their beer? ;If; you speak of being open minded try being so yourself.

Lingo varies from place to place and in my city 'Jamming' would be playing music and 'Jam[ming] out' would be getting in sync with the music you are listening to, kind of like nodding your head to a tune or beat box or something musical. To think one can set one meaning to slang and consider it univsersal would just be crazy.

3XI, I have enjoyed reading some of your points but you do seem to lash out on people sometimes. I think I was some what the same way when I first got here but something somebody said just made me a lot more reasonable. Personal attacks are uncalled for, you may not know or 'care' for the people amongst this forum, but to assume you know them in anyway to make tight criticisms is not needed at all. Don't call RELAYER an alcoholic, as you really have nothing major to base it upon. So what? He drinks beer. Lots of people drink beer and are no where near alcoholics. This is a lot different from going to the bar and getting hammered each night then beating the wives and kids (and I don't think alcoholics last long with kids before the DSS comes). I am not saying you specifically made a 'personal attack' in this thread, but just pointing this out. It's one thing to share your opinion, but to propose your opinion as a fact and just totally ignore anybody elses points being made which may be somewhat the contrare (therefore assuming they are wrong), is kind of.. yeah, [insert your own word].

"alcohol impars your hand eye coordination - it doesnt improve."

Well obviously, but it doesn't mean it makes a person totally uncapable of playing an instrument. Higher levels of intoxication simply make your focus not as wide spread, as you become more drunk the amount of things you are able to focus on become generally less.

"if water = life

and alcohol dehydrates you

then alcohol = _____"

Not even good logic in my opinion, just because we need water to stay alive does not mean that dehydration kills a person, especially that of caused by alcohol. Starving in the desert without anything? There's the dehydration that's to worry about. Then "blank" is right, as if you were to insert death that would totally fail to be accurate in any sense.

"you are not that important to me"

I also do not see why you would be 'truly' interested in helping people out if you think about these people here in such a negative manner. RELAYER is a respected member and he really isn't saying anything to provocative. He has been trying to reason with you ever since you started getting over critical.

"when people get upset with what i have to say it is because a part of them knows that i am right. if you knew that i was wrong it wouldnt bother you in the least."

Don't assume, especially something so general like that. "A part of them knows I am right". That seems a bit arrogant don't you think? If he thought you were right there would be no argument, make sense? The next line.. lol. Well obviously the first thing most people would do if they noticed somebody was blatantly wrong, they'd try to correct them so they won't go around believing something that is false. At least I'd correct somebody, if they were seriously misguided.

I am not trying to correct your opinions, as they are yours, cherish them. But when you have opinions based on assumptions and put them out as facts and bitch at anyone who disagree's, you need some re-sorting to do, sorry, but that is the truth.

 

ah yes, indeed a small amount of alcohol can be healthy, perhaps only by loosening the fat in your arteries.

 

putting words in my mouth!

i did not say that - if you dont believe me go back and look.

i didnt attack you or insult you. i spoke my mind and you didnt like that. if you want just go back and see for yourself.

you said what you thought. then i said what i thought. then you commented on my post and i commented on yours. who is wrong here. you drink now and again - i dont. i think it is bad for you even in small quantities. that is all i said. i didnt call you an alcoholic like swoosh said. it is like you guys start imagining that i am saying things that i am not. i am doing the same thing you are - speaking my mind.

if someone would like to suggest that i have insulted or attacked relayer could you be so kind as to quote it so that we can see what you are talking about. stop putting words in my mouth. all i did was say i think it is bad for you... a few times.

 

Im personally not a big fan of alcohol, I've kinda grown out of it, but I do love beer, is like not even alcohol, it just tastes good, the purpose of drinking to me is never getting drunk. I think that everything done in moderation is safe and when is an excessive consumption of alcohol it becomes unhealthy.
There's also a difference between drinking everyday, drinking because you need it to be ok, drinking to keep you company, drinking to forget than drinking to relax, have some fun and enjoy yourself (not that you cant do it without alcohol, but just to change things up a little).
I've drank with John (Relayer) on several occasions and I cant say that none of those times he has gotten drunk, even if we were at a party or whatever, or he's the most chillest drunk of all. I drink a lot less than I used because getting smashed has lost its appeal but I do enjoy a buzz and it can usually be a beneficial thing, like StonerBill explained, there are many different stages to the effects of alcohol, it all depends in which one you are in.
Also to me is completely normal people drinking at kid's birthdays, including the parents, but is one thing drinking and another one getting drunk. He said he drank 5 beers, but you dont know the amount of time in which he drank those beers to assume he was drunk. It's all about the quantity and the time frame and people have different tolerance levels.

 

but - wasnt relayer also trying to change my mind?

i truly believe in what i say. that is why it might seem like i want to change peoples minds. but if you are to tell me that i shouldnt try to change peoples minds are you trying to change my mind?

there is nothing wrong with me speaking my mind and that is all i am really doing here. just like the rest of you.

anyone who wants to suggest that i shouldnt try to change peoples minds is a hypocrite. you are trying to change my mind about changing peoples minds. we all do it.

if i truly believe that alcohol is bad for you than it is only natural for me to want others to understand it also. what kind of person would i be to sit back and watch someone hurt themselves. - i have to at least say something. i have to try to get my message across. taking the time to speak my mind is a good thing. we all believe we are right or we wouldnt have posted. you all do the same thing as i do. if you think it is ok to have drink once and awhile then you must think i am wrong. what is wrong with me thinking that you are wrong if you think that i am wrong. NOTHING... thats life... we disagree and we try to make our message clearer. need i go on...

 

You don't need to say something inorder to 'imply' it. And if you are not meaning to make people think something, then be more specific. I actually went through everything you said he may or may not find offensive. I'll put "*" which implies a form of alcoholism.

"how old are you??? lol"

"you act like such a little kid sometimes."

"we have already had an argument about alcohol in another thread where you made an ass out of yourself."

"if you havent - just go on posting like everyone really needs to hear how much you despise me."

* "i dont see any benefit to drinking even if it is only a small amount. alcohol is an escape whether or not the person is conscious of it - alcohol is a great way to forget about your problems only making matters worse when the problems dont go away and you dont know how to deal with them because you keep forgetting about them. "

But there IS a proven scientifical benefit, whether you choose to believe it or not. To assume that everybody drinks and whether conscious or not they are using it as an escape, is more than wrong. Alcohol may or may not be the last line of that but it's all dependent on the user like most other drugs.

"so you think that alcohol is good for playing music. thats the funniest thing ever."

^ You are kind of taunting his own opinion now, whether you are just 'expressing your mind' or not.

* "people who enjoy alcohol are very good with their denial."

^ Who wouldn't think they are being called an alcoholic if this generalization was applied to them?

* "if you need alcohol to enjoy yourself their is something wrong with you."

* "but i dont think there is anything i can say that i havent already in attempts to save you from yourself and alcohol."

"you are doing it to me right now so kindly ---- f#@* off."

 

i dont imply. i say it stait to the point. if i didnt say it i didnt mean it.


whats wrong with you people???


take me literally or dont bother reading what i have to say. i am honest and to the point. ie - if i thought he was an alcoholic i would have said so.

 

Okay, well good thing you clarified it now then, but those are still some pretty negative comments to regard to people who use alcohol.

Nothings wrong with anyone for getting implications.. A lot of things can be implied if the person does not want to come out and directly say it. And that is done all the time..

 

you guys should know me well enough by now. we all know that i am not the kind of person to hold back. i am honest - that is the problem.

saying that he is in denial does not say anything except that he should know better.

never did i say that it is a horrible thing that he was drinking on his sons birthday or that he was a drunk. relayer is famous for putting words in my mouth trying to paint me as the bad guy.

drinking every now and again is not all that bad. the less you drink the better off you will be. someone can drink socially for their entire lives and not be dramatically effected by it. but that doesnt change what i said about it being bad for you. just if you use it in moderation the negative effects would be small enough to go unnoticed. i still think you would be better off not to drink at all. that doesnt mean that i think you guys are horrible people. why you would be offended by my perspective is beyond me. if relayer dosnt like people saying that he acks like a kid sometimes maybe he should be a little more open to other peoples perspectives. if you go back to when this started with relayer - it was him who started the debate. if he didnt want me to comment on his post then he shouldnt have commented on mine.

when someone says something about me that i know is not the truth is doesnt bother me. if someone said that i was acting like i child and i knew for a fact that i was being mature about things i would not be upset. i would laugh. the truth hurts - if i am to avoid being hurtful with my words i would have to be a liar. i didnt say anything that bad.

relayer has to start respecting my place in the world... along with the rest of you!