What does it mean to be Gay?

well thank you for the kind message, I see what you mean

 

To me homosexuality and gay are two separate things. You can be homosexual but not identify as gay.
This is quite an interesting read I found on another website-
"1) People who impose stereotypes indulge and perpetuate (their learned) bigotry.
2) Objects of that stereotyping who accept and embrace those stereotypes (whether uncritically or defensively) are people who accommodate that bigotry and their own subjugation.

I make a distinction between sexual orientation (i.e. homosexual) and cultural identity (i.e. “Gay”). Therefore I do not equate homosexuality with Gayness in the same way I do not equate race with cultural specificity (i.e. “Black” does not equal “thug”; “Asian” does not equal “math genius”). Therefore, while homosexuality may be foundational to one’s identity “Gay” (as a culturally learned set of behaviors) is not.

Gay identity has never been formed outside of oppression. Consequently much of it is a defensive reaction-formation to hostility and persecution. While that response has been necessary and empowering in past decades it is, nonetheless, an accommodation to homophobia. I’m not sure any of us know what “Gay” is outside that confining space. I think it is very important for us all to have a discussion about whether or not that is false consciousness.

The only thing I’m advocating is simply be yourself, not a persona constructed to accommodate stereotypes."

 

no. to me, being gay bears just the implication of liking men. i don't see that homosexuality brings anything else with it. spiritual people tend to read too much into things.

and regarding the last post -- i also don't differentiate between gay (noun) and homosexual (noun). i think the meaning also depends on the class of the word -- whether it's a noun or an adjective. i agree that there is a certain set of behaviors and a certain cultural identity that some gay guys have, and sometimes that is referred to as 'gay' (adjective). but gay (noun) is just a more polite word for homosexual.

 

i think what you're talking about here is our equivalent of transsexual, not homosexual. they might have practiced homosexual acts (like in that text pochikuen pasted) but they later got together with women so they can hardly be considered homosexual. i do know that transsexuals were considered being shamans because they had both masculine and feminine 'energy' (not the gay guy, who ultimately is a man, not a fucking woman)

 

"spiritual people tend to read too much into things."

Another way to consider that is to say some people fail to recognize the spiritual implication of our existence and there miss some of the depth of life.

Who is to say one view has more validiy than another?

 

i think that gay people and straite people are really no diffrent, in my religius beliefes i believe we go through many diffrent lives (through death and rebirth/reincanarnation) and learn from those experiences.

people who are anti-homosexual are just people who havent gone through the lesson of love in their life line, but theyll learn soon ^.^

but to more directly answer the question, i think that to a degree homosexual people can be more understanding and such, because they know hardships of being judged and so would be less likely to judge others themselves, and can love both sexes, because they see love not as phisical which is a main reason that people dont see homosexuality as ideal, they cant be attracted by body, and they dono how to be attracted to mind, but i think alot of gay peoples have a deeper-than-skin love and understanding of people.

 

what implication are you talking about?

life after death maybe? that can't be an implication because there is nothing known about that, so far it's only an invention of man. you can't imply something that's existence is unknown. people who preach the afterlife always go, 'i believe it exists'. based on what? there is absolutely nothing in our lives to deduct eternal life from other than wishful thinking. those people believe in afterlife because they WANT it to exist, not because their belief has any ground. hell, i'd like to have an afterlife too, but that doesn't make me fool myself into believing in one.

i'm as nonspiritual as anybody can be and that doesn't stop me from seeing life as something utterly beautiful. this whole world, mankind, our history, our achievements, failures -- it's all beautiful. you don't have to be spiritual to experience all the depths of human experience in this life.

don't take this personally, but in my opinion all this spirituality is a way for people to feel good about themselves and fool themselves about what life is about, to invent meanings and substance where there is none.

and -- you can't talk about validity here, because neither me nor you have any means to prove our point. there's no validity. what we can talk about is subjective approach to life. and that can only be judged on the basis of how well a person does in life -- mentally, emotionally, physically.

 

i'm the same way. i think it's more than just attraction. But then there's those that it is just attraction to them.
I think it's a mix of different things we don't really have words for. maybe thats why the healers and shamans and berdaches were just left up to spiritual terms.
I think it's mainly about reflection in many many different aspects. It's a reflection upon the world, the way we do things, the soul, some kind of awareness of things we can't normally detect. Mainly about the soul.

We're like John Coffey in the Green Mile. and i guess what we're trying to achieve is what happens in that movie basically.

im really glad there's someone else like me

 

im the same way, that i dont need a crutch or anything such as spiritual crap. i see things the way they are. we're not leaning on spiritual things. and of course we can't prove validity. I'm much aware. but first step is first: to know that there's other people like us.

and i think we all have different ideas of spirituality in our heads. the way i see it, and yapario may see it, is the spirituality is ontop of the real world, not the way you seem to view it which is instead of the real world

 

What it means to be gay is simple. You like men, not women.

Done deal.

 

Thats a very simplistic view and not necessarily true at all. For starters gay not only refers to men but also to women ie lesbians are also known as gay women so therefore to be gay does not mean you like men and not women as you have implied.
Secondly many homosexual and bisexual men dont identify as gay and reject the whole idea of it. In most gay communities to fit in you must look a certain way, act a certain way, dress a certain way ie fit the stereotype which is so ironic being as its supposed to somehow be free and liberating. Sadly this can be just as repressive as straight culture hence the reason it is rejected.

 

Duly noted, fair enough point.

It may be a little pedantic to mention lesbians, I mean they are in my eyes lesbian, and men gay. But I see your point.

However I do disagree the the rest. Whether a person chooses to identify with the term gay is irrelevant. They are gay, if someone put a gun to their head and demanded their sexual preference, and they are truthful- they would say they were homosexual surely? If they say otherwise, or decide not to acknowledge their label does not change the fact they are inclined in such a way.

You call a spade a spade. I mean look at the term black. For a while Americans preferred the term African American, fair enough. But look at the bigger picture, they have black skin, rather than say white- they wouldn't get away with not referencing their skin colour, it is what it is. You do need that dictionary definition, whether it's acknowledged is fair enough, but a spade is a spade.

In light of everything I have said mind, I am not gay. So maybe it would be different had I been. It's an interesting point you raised however, it's a shame you have that 'stereotyped' society. I always figured 99/9% of gay men tried to avoid the stereotype of camp, if that is what you are referring to!

 

farts are silent but deadly.

 

no, my idea of spirituality is not as something alternative to reality. i understand the practice deals with matters supposedly 'higher' to reality (what does that even mean? can anybody actually explain that -- things 'higher' than this reality. why 'higher'? why not 'beyond' or 'aside' etc.)
and why do you say 'on top of the real world' -- that would suggest this life is beneath something else. where do you get that? from the bible? from something somebody said?

this is one thing i don't like about spiritual/religious way of thinking -- the suggestion that this life is a lower state of something else. from my experience this life is amazing. i don't know anything other than this life. thus i cannot possibly make a comparative note of it being 'higher' or 'lower' to anything. you think you possess knowledge to make such a judgment?

 

My perception of reality is just that...my perception. Other people have and experience their own reality. For me as a man who has always had a sexual attraction to other men I have noticed insights/connections to other people that I believe have been enhanced by being "Gay". The word gay is just shorthand for saying same sex preference to me. I fit no stereotype of attitude or appearance, most people who know me on a casual basis assume me to be a blue collar worker or an old biker/hippie type. It's not a cultivated look, it simply is who am. I have never strayed far from the apearance of my rural enviroment upbringing. Spiritually I was strongly affected by my Catholic church upbringing and 8 years of Catholic primary school. Catholicism for me was never more than a short step from its Pagan origins. Mary was the Godess, we brought in soil from our fields to be blessed, many of the saints mirrored pagan detities. I didn't put this together as a child but after attaining an age of reason when I began to question the church I realized that for me the church was not a spirtual path but rather a trap. As far as afterlife I have no idea but spirituality isn't about heaven, hell or puratory as far as I'm concerned. Spirituality has more to do with the connections and relationships I have in the living world that I experience....my reality. I'm as rational as most, educated to a degree and have a fair sense of being able to filter out bullshit and hype. I suppose thats why organized religion has no appeal to me.

Yet I sense spiritual connections on a regular basis in my world. Relatonships with other people, relationships with various animals and plants, connetions to place. I don't know a more appropriate word for these connections than spiritual. It's a connection of feeling, of emotion, a common sense of belonging. No doubt someone will be quite willing to label my sense of sprituality to any number of faults or pathologies...thats fine because it's my reality and I appreciate it for what it is.

And how does any of it tie in to being "Gay"? A heightened sense of awareness forced on me by virtue of societies distain for "Gay" people? Maybe. However, I choose to view it as part of the gift of being gay, a spiritual gift in fact.

 

Labels schmabels. Its all bollocks. I am me. I am unpigeonholeable.
I dont have tribe. I am my own tribe.