What does Jesus (pbuh) mean by ... ?

Hello all

From my understanding, when Jesus refers to Himself as "the Son of Man" He is making reference to Daniel 7:13-14

Daniel 7:
13 I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
14 And to him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.

What do you think?

 

#1 - yes, that Shaitan.

RE: Hell! What do you mean?

Hell. Same thing you understand it to be - where all people go (except those who die in Jihad). The Christians believed he like any other man descended into Hell upon death. I understand and could be wrong that you believe in a Hell, and in a Final Day in which the unbelievers are sent to eternal torment.

Hell is NOT the lake of fire. A literal reading of the Bible gives you the understanding that the unsaved descend into hell upon death - and from there awaken to the Final Judgment, when at which point they will be cast into a lake of everburning fire which was prepared for Satan and the other rebellious Angels. This war in Heaven was detailed in the Book of Enoch, which is NOT in the Canonical Bible but is referenced by it.

The fact that Christ LEFT Hell and went on to being bodily taken into Heaven is the Good News of the Gospels - that there is a way out of the death -> Hell -> Judgment -> Eternal Torment cycle we'd otherwise be prey to.

As for democratic understanding of Gospels, you have to understand that Christianity encompasses a whole myriad of faiths. There is no "Christianity" per se - no definitive definition of it. There's Episcopalianism, Catholicism, Lutheranism, Baptists, etc. all of which are considered variants of Christianity. As to which one is the REAL one, well, that's the crux of the question.

The Bible being what it is is therefore open to interpretation. These are what lead to different faiths. One group thinks you must be dunked completely in water to be saved. Others insist on following a Pope. Some believe you should not baptise children, others do. In essence, the Christian path can be seen as being on two levels.

The most core: that Christ is God and belief in his sacrifice for you will save you - and to show your appreciation, follow his commandment, which is to treat others as you would wish to be treated.

Beyond that it's commentary. You've got everything from groups who believe they must drink poison and handle poisonous snakes to prove their faith, to those who believe that everything in the Bible is allegory and not to be taken literally.

So therefore, you join a church which you believe holds the same interpretation you believe.

Christianity is about what YOU believe, for the most part - and active belief is paramount.

You're free to join at any time, free to disagree and free to quit at any time. In essence, you go to a church because you want to, and it is NOT required. God is all powerful. You can mock the Church all you want - you cannot hurt God any more than a small child could truly insult you. Any retribution will be divine, and Christians are EXPLICITLY instructed to NOT go after vengeance for affronts against God. This explains many Christian groups having such a tolerance for other faiths. It's God that'll have the problem with it, not them.

I mean, me personally, I think Jesus was a neat guy. I think he had a cause and was killed for it. No supernatural power was required to predict THAT death - I mean, if I was to go around challenging the powers that be today, be it laughing at the Imams in the Middle East, or being a REAL and dangerous subversive here - I'd be dead within the month.

As for whether or not he was God or whether I have to believe in a certain thing to be saved or whatever, enh... not sure about it. I certainly do NOT believe in the Bible. I do believe that God whatever it is is good and just and forgiving.

What I find interesting is that the Koran suggests that it follows the Injil, but that Christ was but a prophet, whereas the Injil clearly suggests in more than one place that Christ was in fact God and that God had a son, something that the Koran if I understand it emphatically denies.

 

I might add in passing that one of the reasons Christians are so opposed to the notion that if Christianity is Judaism 2.0 then Islam is Christianity 2.0 - is that there's a few sticking points that cannot be rationalised.

#1) The Bible says Jesus is God. (to most) - and therefore Islam rejecting this claim goes against the Gospels. The Christian will say that Jesus rose from the dead - and Mohammed is still in his tomb - so they'll trust the former.

#2) Jesus was HIGHLY opposed to ritual, rules, laws. He spoke out against "works" and upbraided people for trying to follow religious laws. He healed people on the Sabbath which technically carried a death penalty according to the Torah - but said that humans were more important than sheep, and that a shepherd would assist a lost animal on the Sabbath. He ate food which was haraam and told the critics that it isn't what went into one's mouth that defiles him but what comes out of it. This is why Christians will eat swine even though they may believe other parts of Leviticus. To the Christian aside from a belief in salvation one must simply treat others as one should be treated, and perhaps give a nod to the ten commandments - the first set, not the lesser known second.

Islam to the Christian mind is full of works - go to Hajj, say this prayer, say that prayer, don't eat for a month, bow to a rock five times a day, always write these words before you write any others, rinse out your nose before prayer, etc. These rituals, which are mandatory, seem to the Christian to be like God not caring about loving and forgiving you but about earning merit badges. The Bible also warns against counting one's prayers or ensuring prayer is public.

It seems contrary to the message of the New Testament, and if one believes in that it cannot follow that God would return to dictates on dress, food, rituals, etc. when according to Christian belief all that stuff went out with the Crucifixion.

 

Butch
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Hello
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13 I saw in the night visions,
and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
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Why Daniel said '' son of man'' what does he mean by it?
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Did he mean that he saw something which is looking like human being figure, so he said the son of man as a human in the meaning, i.e. if I say the son of cat I mean he is cat, so did Daniel meant by son of man , human but instead of saying human he said the son of man?
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IronGoth
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hi there
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I don't think that all people except them, there are others too. J
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Of course I do. Muslims should believe in these things.
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Lovely Prophet Muhammad pbuh stated: None of you believes (completely) until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.
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Yes he is, your thought is absolutely right. Guaranteed 1000000%
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My self I think or rather believe in the following click and here
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Happy to read this, and happy that you believe in him, yeah surely God is good and just and forgiving. You are totally right it is Guaranteed by catstevens 1000000%
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YoursSincerely,
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CatStevens​

 

IronGoth ​

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Well, although this isn't our topic here but I will give some comments. ​

Quraan doesn't follow the Injil = (Gospel), I will quote to you what I wrote once for a member.​

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IronGoth ​

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Although my information and scholarship about bible and Christianity are little, but when I read John: 16:7:


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But I tell you the truth: it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the counselor *will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8:when he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment...13:but when he the spirit of truth, comes he will guide you into all truth (1). He will not speak on his own (2); he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come (3) .14:he will bring glory to me (4)…16:in a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me… ​

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When I read the above verses my own thoughts and explanations were;​

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*The counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.​

He meant the prophet Muhammad pbuh.​

Quraan: 61:6:​

And (remember) when Jesus, son of Mary said: O children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah to you, confirming the [(Torah) which came] before me, and giving glad tidings of messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad (#). But when he (Ahmad i.e. Muhammad) came to them with clear proofs, they said; this is plain magic.​

(#) Ahmad: the second name of prophet Muhammad pbuh, he has other names too.​

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(1) comes he will guide you into all truth ​

Quraan: 27:76:​

Verily, this Quraan narrates to the Children of Israel most of that in which they differ.​

Quraan: 35: 31:​

And what I have revealed to you (O Muhammad) of the Book (the Quraan) it is the (very) truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it.​

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He will not speak on his own (2)​

Quraan: 53: 3:​

Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of (his own) desire. 4: it is only a revelation revealed. ​

Quraan is the word of Allah which was delivered by the angel Gabriel to Muhammad pbuh, the prophet memorized the verses he received and recited them to his companions, who happened to be with him. ​

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(3) and he will tell you what is yet to come ​

in a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me…​

e.g.​

Hudhaifa b. Usaid Ghifari reported:Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to us all of a sudden as we were (busy in a discussion). He said: What do you discuss about? They (the Companions) said. We are discussing about the Last Hour. Thereupon he said: It will not come until you see ten signs before and (in this connection) he made a mention of the…..., The descent of Jesus son of Mary (Allah be pleased with him),…​

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He will bring glory to me (4)​

You can find several verses talking about Jesus pbuh in the Quraan, and there is a chapter of the Quraan is entitled (Mary).​

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Matthew; 21: 43:​

… The kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruitè (the people of Meccawho the prophet Muhammad pbuh invited them to Islam)​

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Any way that is my own explanation.​

But yeah we Moslems do not believe that Jesus is a God or the Son of God, he is the messenger and prophet of God= (Allah).​

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Do you mean that there are no rules laws and rituals in Christianity?​

If so what does Jesus mean in?​

1) Matthew: 5: 17 to 19.​

2) Matthew: 15: 1 to 9.​

Similar rituals between Islam and Christianity click here

Or do you mean byritual, rules, lawsspecial particular body actions and deeds, like Muslims 5 prayers for example. If so then Jews haveritual, rules, laws and Jesus said in Matthew: 5:17:​

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Which means they should keep the ritual, rules, and laws of Jews (Moses pbuh)?​

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IronGoth​

dear brother let me tell ye, when I realized and believed that Quraan is the word of God then I will do whatever he wants from me, not all works and deeds is a must to do it in Islam , some are must some are up to you to do it or not, yeah five times to pray is a must, Hajj is a must with conditions e.g. if you can go to Mecca and have money to go and if you can't so you don't have to go.​

That's why we called Moslems,​

Muslims is the adjective of the noun Islam: is an Arabic term which means: ''submission'', points to the fundamental religious creed which dictates that a Muslim submit to the will of Allah, conforming inwardly and outwardly to his lows. i.e.: the right way of life consisting of submission to whatever God has instructed.​

The rock which you are talking about has its story and why we have to pray towards it.​

My lovely and sweat heart Mecca Y​

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23049&stc=1
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23051&stc=1
my dear Kaba whiteness is surrounding you,it is just like the whitness formed a white heart figure exactly as the human heart figure. you are in the center of the world, my heart is in the center of my body, you are Mecca in the center of me. that because i Love you, I love you Allah
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23053&stc=1

 

Are there many muslims that that just claim to be muslim but don't do the prayer daily and things like that? Are most muslims pretty serious about their beliefs, or is it kinda like christianity where there is a large population that only goes to church on holildays, believes in god, and that's about it?

Guess this is probably the wrong forum for that kinda question...

 

IronGoth ​

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I don't think that so, there are hundreds of verses and prophetic sayings which care about loving and forgiving.
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Tiny examples of the prophet muhammad's pbuh sayings:
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{The believers, in their love, mercy, and kindness to one another are like a body: if any part of it is ill, the whole body shares its sleeplessness and fever.} We are one soul in different bodies.
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{None of you believes (completely) until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.}
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{The merciful are shown mercy by the All-Merciful. Show mercy to those on earth, and God will show mercy to you.}
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{Smiling at your brother is charity...}
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{A good word is charity.}
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{Whoever believes in God and the Last Day (the Day of Judgment) should do good to his neighbor.}
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{God does not judge you according to your appearance and your wealth, but He looks at your hearts and looks into your deeds.}
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{Pay the worker his wage before his sweat dries.}
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Tiny examples of the of the Quraanic verses:
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'' … Let them pardon and forgive. Do you not love that Allah should forgive you? And Allah is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.''
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Chapter: 24, verse: 22
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The meaning: if you will forgive Allah's creatures then Allah will forgive you.
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'' Those who spend (in Allah's Cause) in prosperity and in adversity, who repress anger, and who pardon men; verily, Allah loves Al-Muhsinun (the good-doers).''
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Chapter:3, verse: 134
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2: 83"… be dutiful and good to parents and to kindred and to orphans and to Al-Masakin (the needy) and speak good to people (i.e. enjoin righteousness and forbid evil)…"
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41: 34: the good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Rebel (the evil) with one which is better (i.e. Allah orders the faithful believers to be patient at the time of anger, and to excuse those who treat them badly) then verily he, between whom and you there was enmity, (will become) as thought he was a close friend.
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Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens
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Any way I still need more explanation or clarification about the meaning of "the son of man" please don't take off the topic, All peace and love.
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Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens
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Sera Michele
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Hi Sera, nice to see
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Dear sister, unfortunately and sadly yeah there are Moslems who don't pray daily, although praying five times a day daily is a must but there are who pray when they want to.
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And yeah Moslem women shouldn't pray while she is menstruating.
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I don't think they are like Christianity, that because you should pray daily five times a day, male Muslims pray in mosques, woman doesn't have to pray in the mosque but if she wants that's up to here. There are things which are a must to do it. I read once in a news paper a comparison between the numbers of the Muslims who pray in mosques and Christians who go to the churches it was too huge difference, I went t Mecca in Saudi Arabia, in the Mosque of (Masjid Al-Haram) you can find that there are money people praying out side the mosque for there is no space.
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image 1 image 2
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Absolutely
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Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens
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