when you're tripping

Exactly.

 

Wasn't there some study a couple decades ago where they gave acid to monks in India, and they were just kind of unfazed because that's how they saw stuff?

That's what this made me think of, but when I was tripping the other night I wanted to keep tripping forever. I was sad when it finally ended.

 

when i'm tripping i cannot understand any other manner of existing.

depending on the intensity of the trip i may or may not recognize that it wasn't always like *this* but even if i know i'm experiencing the world in a different way than usual, if i've taken a reasonable dose then i don't really recognize what "usual" looks like

 

Think about the reason the word "trip" was coined in the first place, as a metaphor for travel, the travel of the mind.

It's all about travel. If there's nothing new about it, it's not really much of a trip, is it? Sure, a "trip to the store", or a "trip to the beach" may involve some form of enjoyment, but a real "trip" normally involves something strange, new, and novel, like, say, a "trip to Europe", or a "trip to the far east".

So, if you were to remain there forever, it wouldn't be a "trip" anymore, would it? It would merely be a migration, with settling down.

Variety is the spice of life.

 

this is logical, but it doesn't address the question of whether or not the term "tripping" is useful or accurate.

while the psychedelic experience is very alien in general, most people who experience a healthy dose of mushrooms (or even LSD) experience a juxtaposition of the alien with the familiar. it is quite uncanny. it at once feels strange and otherworldly AND as if it were a homecoming of sorts. a sense of "this...how did i forget this?" is common even in one's first trip. the familiarity of it seems to be ingrained in humanity in general, and if this is not the case then it becomes almost instantly ingrained in a large number of individuals when taking a psychedelic drug for the first time.

 

i've heard from some friends who have miild schizophrenia that their illness very very slightly like an acid trip... but that's kind of flawed because as schizophrenics they probably have a different experience with LSD than most people have.

regardless, i do think that permanently being in that state in modern society would be maladjusted and you'd definitely be hospitalized and deemed unable to function in normal society.

at this point in time, in the west, there's really no room for making a life out of that sort of energy... maybe in the past, or maybe even somewhere deep in the forest in south America but not anywhere that most of us are probably familiar with.

 

it does from what ive read it produces a state of calmness for them

 

or it could severely exacerbate their psychosis...

i couldn't in good conscience suggest that someone with mental illness take psychedelics... if only for the fact that social conditioning prevents them from being well adjusted to their illness (teaches people to repress/suppress rather than explore and consider). i do think that if these differences were encouraged and developed in our society (shamanism) then this group of people may benefit the MOST from psychedelic use.

but as things stand it's really not a healthy choice...

 

i dont know i just wouldnt make statements like that unless your getting it from someplace legit. My info came from "acid dreams"

 

The main import of my post was in response to the OP question "do you want it to end or could you live like that forever", as well as the resultant response from another poster as to the implied meaning inherent in the word "trip".

If one were to "live like that forever", it would seem commonplace before long, and could no longer be called a "trip", right?

I think one could agree on the fact that when one is not "tripping", one is not in the same locale of mind that one is whenst one IS "tripping", couldst one not? Perhaps it is merely a matter of temporal psycho/dimensional perception, and not physical difference, but the perception is as if one is either "visiting" or "revisiting" another place, nevertheless. Therefore, it may be called a "trip", per se.

Regardless, the word "trip" has become so commonly adopted, and understood as such, that it seems meaningless to bandy words over a change of nomenclature.

But I see your point, in that it is often felt as a kind of "homecoming", rather than a visit to a foreign land. But being novel, as if we had not been there, the word "trip" may still apply, as in a "trip home".

My own experiences of LSD were like this. I was awakened, and thought "this is nothing like getting stoned". It's not what I would consider "recreational drug use", in the commonly understood sense. There's no "whoa man, I'm falling down dizzy". It's a change in awareness, and a facing of reality, to whomever may wish it. The shams fall away, or are peeled off the psyche, one by one.

I'm still not certain whether it would be good to remain there, or whether it would be dangerous. It might be too disturbing and sudden for the individual and surrounding social environment, without the buffer of "real life", however unreal that may be. Good shock value, however, in the best sense.

 

Anyone interested in a technical discussion of psychedelics and schizophrenia, I just found this article.

González-Maeso J, Sealfon SC. Department of Psychiatry, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, NY 10029, USA.

Research on psychedelics such as lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) and dissociative drugs such as phencyclidine (PCP) and the symptoms, neurochemical abnormalities and treatment of schizophrenia have converged. The effects of hallucinogenic drugs resemble some of the core symptoms of schizophrenia. Some atypical antipsychotic drugs were identified by their high affinity for serotonin 5-HT(2A) receptors, which is also the target of LSD-like drugs. Several effects of PCP-like drugs are strongly affected by both 5-HT(2A) and metabotropic glutamate 2/3 receptor modulation. A serotonin-glutamate receptor complex in cortical pyramidal neurons has been identified that might be the target both of psychedelics and the atypical and glutamate classes of antipsychotic drugs. Recent results on the receptor, signalling and circuit mechanisms underlying the response to psychedelic and antipsychotic drugs might lead to unification of the serotonin and glutamate neurochemical hypotheses of schizophrenia. PMID: 19269047 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


It's from March of this year, which makes it very recent and pretty exciting.

 

Actually though, lsd has been known to help people over addiction, alcoholism, and other relatively mild mental conditions.

I'm pretty sure Carey Grant used it to beat his alcoholism.

 

you're elaborating on your point, not arguing against mine. the thing is that for many, if not most, individuals who take a good dose of a traditional psychedelic such as psilocybian mushrooms, it already feels commonplace, natural, and the way you are "supposed" to feel - at least for the duration of the experience.

i disagree and feel that spacial metaphors are useless in describing the effect in most cases. in common parlance of course it is useful in identifying the experience for the purpose of communication, but i don't think it is at all a useful model of the experience.

i do not wish and am not attempting to change the words people use to describe the experience. your argument is what i've taken issue with, which is based on the term "trip." as i feel it is an inaccurate means of description, i feel the argument is invalid. this is different than trying to change how people speak of their experiences - i myself use the word "trip" without reservation, as it is the easiest word to use.

thanks for the acknowledgment, but i still maintain that such terms are useless outside of common conversation, as it represents a wholly inappropriate view of the psychedelic experience (according to my personal interpretations, of course)

 

Hmmm if you think about it we are all taking a trip right now on a hot rock basically to another point in the galaxy that may or may not end when our bodies die. Sober or "tripping" seem the same to me, just so vastly adjustable is our awareness that we feel it isn't the same. It is like asking can you act sober on acid? Yes you can unless you are absolutely frying out of control, just a matter of mind over matter. So yea I will trip forever, one way or another.

 

In response to your suggestion that I am not arguing against your interpretation as much as elaborating on my point, I heartily agree. I am not as much an arguer as one who seeks a common ground, and the truth. It is not my interpretation against yours, but what is real that counts.

I also agree that perhaps there could be a more exacting redefinition of the psychedelic experience that would more accurately convey the reality. As I mentioned (I've edited thrice to this point) I don't believe psychedelics to be recreational as much as therapeutic in nature, if approached scientifically. It may end up as fun, for the right person in the right place, metaphorically, or it could end up terrifying, for those who were expecting something more self assuring, whose relations to what they imagine to be "the real world" are more tenacious. The clingy types, who sense a loss if they don't have the familiarity of their imagined existence and personality, or collection of cliched symbols to hide in as a garb. These things get stripped.

Take me on a trip upon your magic swirlin' ship,
My senses have been stripped, my hands can't feel to grip,
My toes too numb to step, wait only for my boot heels
To be wanderin'.
I'm ready to go anywhere, I'm ready for to fade
Into my own parade, cast your dancing spell my way,
I promise to go under it.
Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me,
I'm not sleepy and there is no place I'm going to.
Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me,
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come followin' you.

I don't know how accurate Dylan's thought pictures are here, or even if he intended to portray the psychedelic experience. I just felt like quoting Dylan, because he's Dylan.


By the way, Nesta,,

You're a trip.

 

you mean my statement that taking LSD can make psychosis worse?

and MattB, i'm definitely not saying that LSD *can't* help people- it most certainly can, i've seen it plenty of times. all i'm saying is that this can go either way- it can really help some people and it can also make things a lot worse for others.

 

It's a crap shoot, until you try it, and some people come up "snake eyes".

I was lucky. I didn't have a strong ego to cling to when the boat began to rock.

I just went for the ride.

Can you imagine how some felt who were used in early experiments with LSD, in sterile, "clinical" settings. Science has no idea, in some cases. Hence, the term "guinea pigs". I think I would have freaked after one look at the lab coats approaching, with faces distorted by the truth.

 

depends on what im on/how hard i'm tripping...
benadryl trip and first time i did dxm i definitely wanted to be sober again, benadryl was kinda cool but dxm i felt like i was giong to die

mushies trip i wanted it to go on forever, same with the second time i did dxm (much lower dose + weed)

 

yes.

 

good morning.