Where Do You Fall?

All subjective experience possesses an objective reality.

I say the Tooth-Fairy doesn't exist.

Yet, subjectively believing in a Tooth-Fairy, you place a tooth under your pillow, and in the morning you find a quarter in place of your tooth.

That Tooth-Fairy now possesses an objective reality as both a false subjective belief and a real subjective experience.

Now the Tooth-Fairy does exist.

In the same way, the gods we create to serve our very real psychological needs exist as both false subjective beliefs and real subjective experiences.

Consider the well documented placebo-effect.

God exists as a type of placebo-effect.

Very real, yet very false.

 

the only objective reality that subjective 'realities' have is that objectively people subjectively have them. period.

as to where i fall; i usualy fall on my ass, at least figuratively, although i don't generaly have much of a problem with that unless i don't get enough sleep.

i fail to see anything as requireing anything to not exist.
i also fail to see any requirement, or even any kind of sense, in expecting anything we choose to believe to be greater then ourselves, to begin and end with what any of us thinks we know about it.

my feeling is that there is something nontangable that wishes us well, and that is god enough for me.

and if people want to shaire assumptions about it that's their own bussiness as long as they don't use doing so as an excuse to beat someone else over the head for not shairing the same as their's.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Ha ha... THAT WAS A QUOTE I WILL ARCHIVE!

Beautiful.

 

Libertine

Occam happens to believe if a god exists.
It is an evolved being/race.

Who are u to say such cannot alter reality to it's desires?
[that is, alter the laws that govern reality.
Thus deciding the form of reality]

Nobody.. U cant say anysuch thing. u cant even say what exists beyond our atmosphere. [except by proxie of other minds and methods]
Athiesm CANNOT be logically validated.
It is a position held from desire. And can be no more untill humans KNOW every little thing in reality.
Yet we have not even left this solar sytem. A small speck of sand on a beach 14 billion lightyears long. [132,451,200,000,000,000,000,000 kms]

Occam

 

Exactly!
It's that simple,and it's that REAL!

But unfortunately there's no period to it, because through the power of suggestion it becomes one of the most powerful objective realities of our subjective experience.

Especially since, even in our own never-ending internal dialogs, we are chronically objectifying our own subjective reality.

To such a point of subjective alienation that civilized man is rarely even alive to the subjective experience of his own skin.

Thus, due to the massive alienation of civilized man, god loses much of its subjective power, and becomes an intensely objectified iconic fetish.

This is why the gods created by civilized men are never completely fulfilling, and forces civilized men to constantly increase our god's reflective suggestive power through ever increasing demands of conformity.

 

Look. People continue to create their own gods. They can't stand the fact that there is no god, so they have to call nature "god" or they have to say "god" is possibly an alien or "god" is your feelings or "god" is this or "god" is that.

Bullshit.

You know damn good and well that "god" is the label used to describe an omni-max super ghost. So, stop fucking with these other concepts in an attempt to make everything all better and so you can go back to accepting that here's something out there looking out for your petty interests.

There is no god. Only nature. Only energy. And to say that these things are "god" is only to deny their own greatness and stick your man-made label back on it all.

 

This is kind of ridiculous.


How many times is this forum going to do the same atheist/agnostic, weak/strong, defining of terms debate?

Move on!

 

Time is running out!

We no longer possess the luxury of simply denying our powerful mytho-symbolic creations.

The fear-driven neurotic preoccupations that motivate the creation of our god myths make these myths the most powerful and dangerous tools ever created by man.

Denying the existance of god is to close our eyes to the psycho-pathology of the ubiquitous death-drive that is quickly dragging us over the edge of global mass destruction.

Only when we have the courage to face the reality of the god-myths we create will we have the courage to face the psycho-dynamics motivating our creation.

God is real; all too real, and killing this or that god will not stop the psycho-dynamic momentum of our collective super-ego from conjuring up the next, and the next,,,

With the increasing accelerated perversion of science of technology, closing our eyes to the reality of the god-authority that keeps us chained to the funeral-march of patriarchal civilization merely seals our doom.

 

knowledge is not the begining and end of what can exist.
objectivity IS the begining and end of knowledge.

diversity exists and insures that there will always be more that exists then we know of.
and we don't even have to know how much is known to know that.

there is a universe that loves us, but can't and won't stop us from injuring ourselves.

gods are not required and neither are we. yet we do exist. and there is absolutely nothing to prevent them from doing so as well.

it is only when people start talking about god or gods as if they knew what they were talking about that i have to stop and ask myself: "where does this so called knowledge they immagine to have come from?" and where else?, but either themselves or someone else, claiming to know it.

what has this to do with whatever may or may not actualy exist?
very little if anything as far as have been able to observe.

how much of what i feel is based on logical argument?
some of it. and just as much on intrinsic inclinations.
my own mostly.
tempered and disciplined,
by as much objectively as i have been able to bring to bear.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Agree

Occam is sick of people who 'know' what they are physically unable to know..
Holding a position of understanding by grace of their own 'omnipotent powers'.
But as long as they dont use it to justify acts on earth
or corrupt the minds of children with absurd stories of 'god in heaven'
it is harmless

In the last year occam has stated 20 times at least that athiesm for example cannot be anything but a desired position.
One is an athiest because one 'wants to be'
Athiesm cannot be rationally supported.
None has ever countered this with any arguement worth spit.

Some will cuss at this.
Occam asks 'What evidence do you forward to prove there is no god'?
That u cant see one? That no human has seen one?
not good enough
Humans are mere specks of mater in ths vast reality.
we know JUST.... a little bit more than nothing.

 

I am ALive of something so what ever that is, I would call it GOD, As oppsoed to the alternative which is nothing existing thus no GOD

 

To answer the first post .. Occam usually falls on the 3rd step just before the laundry

 

*lol*

 

it just doesnt matter one way or the other whether there is a god. so until there is some reason to believe otherwise, i am going to give my own perception primacy.

what good does all your supposing do?

 

Love your new sig, btw.

 

actually, subjective realities are merely identifications of objective realities. 'god' exists as many things (such as, an excuse to go to war, or the answer to a child's question), just not as we subjectively identify it (as an omnipotent being).

so how do we objectively identify god?

many atheists like to brush it off as simply a fool's selftrickery to make life seem more comfortable and meaningful. but that is merely sweeping things under the carpet.

what IS god? and if god is not objectively the same as what we can objectively discern as a subjective identity, then what is the objective substitute for this subjective identity?

along with this, what stops an atheist believing in spiritual forces? atheism opposes god/s, but gods are raelly simply the most mundayne of spiritual beliefs. where do atheists step in when eastern beliefs come into play, concerning the energy of the soul and other such things. these are the religions that atheists should be spending their time discussing against, for 'god' is definately last mellenia's pop idol amongst this croud.

the biggest incorrect logical fallacy with this and similar threads is the idea that you believe in something or you are confused. why cant we simply believe in one thing: that our beliefs bear no relevance to the mechanics of the universe, and that as a result, to believe anything as the absolute truth is to live in a self defined ignorance. unless of course, your belief is 100% accurate. nothing in the known universe is 100% accurate, so from a physical point of view it is simply failed use of the brain to believe that your mind, which is based on billions of processes, none of which are 100% stable or accurate, to derive from trillions of experiences, none of which are experienced 100% nor remembered, nor processed 100%, a concept which is self proclaimedly 100% accurate.

some of us dont have to compensate insecurities with such an ultimately egotistical ludicrousy

 

Stay tuned...

"How To Use Lack of Evidence as Evidence for even more Sky Daddy bullshit" with Dr. Bill will continue after these messages.

 

__________________

MYTHS, and their symbolic universal archetypes, are meaningful attempts by the conscious mind to bring to the surface of conscious awareness the deeply hidden and irresistable impulses of our underlying subconscious motivations.

Failure to explore the meaningful revelations of our collective myths is symptomatic of repression.

Symptomatic of the resistance caused by the momentum of the mass psychosis of denial of our repressed patriarchal state of mind.

Atheists, like Fundamentalist and all repressed civilized men, deliberately fixate themselves upon the proving or disproving of the mere literal-reality of our mytho-symbolic god archetypes.

Thus repressing any meaningful exploration of the hidden roots of civilized man's psycho-sexual motivations.

Prudishly hidding from the hairy smelly primate motivations of sex and death.

So unfortunately, if you thought the 20th century was savage, hold on to your hats, 'cause you aint seen nothin yet!!!

 

what are the "deeply hidden and irresistable impulses of our underlying subconscious motivations."?

trying to save ourselves from nonexistence after physical death?

i consider myself an atheist, but i wouldnt say im fixated on disproving god archetypes... but i guess i wouldnt realize it, would i?

 

Survival and reproduction are the major primate motivations.

However, in hyper-competitive social environments, where survival and reproductive insecurity is chronic, we primates use deception as our most effective survival and reproductive strategy.

In the hyper-competitive social environment of our hierarchical civilization, our Ego represses our natural psycho-sexual energy deep into the subconscious and deceptively re-directs our motivating sexual-energy through the civilized drappery of religion, business and politics.

Thus in hierarchical civilization, our religious, business and political impulses are motivated by deeply repressed psycho-sexual enery.

It gets worse, but nobody likes hearing the anal aspects of survival fear, and how those repressed subconscious impulses deceptively re-surface in our civilized behavior.

So I'll leave it at that.