Who sinned first? Man, Satan or God?

Maybe you know ancient Hebrew as I do. We would communicate very well.:sunny:

 

I think man sinned long before he made up any God or Satan to excuse or blame for his sinning.

By sin I mean immoral action. By immoral action I mean anything violating mans natural compassion and empathy that is intrinsic to any non-sociopathic human being. God and religion are mechanisms that allow non-sociopathic people to sin under the delusion of a higher morality, which is a pseudo-morality.

"Father, we thank you for this bounty we have murdered, and this land we have stolen with bloody hands. Please grant us vicarious redemption through our tortured savior Jesus Christ, Amen".

 

You see 20/20.

Not using logic and reason and wanting to remain dumbed down are Christian attributes. I am pleased you have not picked those up.

Regards
DL

 

Really???
Sounds like a rather naive' and childish grasp of the subject.

 

Rabbi Volpe said that no writings before 1,000 c. e. should even be used. He is right I think. The ancients used to change the wording just to discuss the scriptures a new way. That was what all scriptures were created to do. Initiate the seeking of God. Not the finding of one in a book.

Regards
DL

 

We have no argument.

Regards
DL

 

It is a trick question. Only people have sinned, probably because they are the ones who invented it indeed.

 

All the murders of children and babies attributed to God are all just collateral damage and not murder. To fools.

Regards
DL

 

Yeah... to clarify, I'm not christian and have told people, but my parents think they can make me by dragging me to church anyway

I had a good laugh at that too... I was pissed, but it was funny. Soon enough I'll be able to drive though, so that'll be the end of that

 

As long as you don't hate either of us. Love your enemies as if they were your neighbour; and love your neighbour as yourself.

 

Oh really? How so? To me it seems more enlightened... so without a holier than thou approach, tell me what I'm supposedly failing to see

 

I thought Lillith was first but it is arguable I suppose and I don't want to debate this. Just saw the bait and took a look.

 

Haha, don't worry about that dude. I don't like the religion, it doesn't mean I hate the people involved, even if sometimes I can't stand their actions. Me hating people? Yeah, not likely

 

because you seem to be considering it solely from a literal perspective. Old Testament stories convey truths through myriad methodologies, metaphor, allegory, history, etc.. To only consider such writing strictly from a literal interpretation is naive and leads to erroneous conclusions, such as Greatest puts forth.


Let me run this past ya and see if it sticks at all.
I was introduced to this idea in "The Crack in The Cosmic Egg" by J.C. Pearce

In the evolution of our species there was a point when the frontal cortex was much, much smaller. The frontal cortex is where all the higher cognitive functions occur; introspective thought, self awareness, sense of ego, etc., etc.. Essentially the frontal cortex is the "Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil". Without the higher functions the frontal cortex carries out, the concept of "good vs evil" would not exist.

Now when they "ate" the fruit they saw they were "naked"---self awareness, then questioned and "disobeyed" again self of self and development of ego as the frontal cortex takes shape and begins to apply "meaning" and valuation beyond simple survival to behaviors which are at their root instinctual.

God also cursed Eve with pain in childbirth. Guess what, thanks to our frontal cortex our heads are fucking huge by comparison and THAT is one of the primary reasons human females experience so much more pain and difficulty in childbirth than other mammals.

So through the development of the frontal cortex in humans and the subsequent changes in behavior and cognition, humans were "expelled from paradise".

Most of our valuations of "good" and "evil" are completely the result of applying higher thought functions to basic instincts.

So when looked at as metaphor, the story actually fits pretty damn good with an evolutionary viewpoint concerning man.

 

You might recognize our positions as the same. If a man sues for you coat give him your shirt also.

You are without correction for me.

My view on sin is this. Sin is misidentification, missing the sign of authority or simply, ignorance. If you are in a state of sin, you know not what you do.
Temptation to sin is the desire to have illusion be real.
Sin is not an act although sins, unhelpful acts, are reactions to misperceptions and not signs of moral deficiency as all things are lawful but not all helpful.

There is no reason that the age of reason should be in a state of sin and therefor absent any accusation you may go and sin no more. The truth, correct identification, sets you free. I am the first and the last.

 

Haha, clever that.

I'll bite. First of all, I'd like to say that childbirth hurts no matter the size of the infant's head. I don't see how that has anything to do with it.

Here's my problem with it all - you're forgetting about this whole thing with God and him acting in a negative way to these people. You're forgetting about how there is a supposed "original sin" at all - what about that? Why is he angry in the story? And why are Adam and Eve so hateful of their newfound nudity/self awareness? And why was God?

I could write a story that captures the most basic elements of human evolution, publish it in the first chapter of a so-called holy book and gather followers to it. Maybe it'll be around in 2000 years, I dunno. Just because it exists doesn't mean it's divine. Just ask Scientology about that :smilielol5:

Also, how was knowledge supposed to expel us from paradise? Nature isn't paradise, because it is neither for you or against you. It just is. NOTHING changed with out newfound ability to interpret it.

I feel you're viewing the text and what scientifically happened as two entirely unrelated things, almost as if you have a christian half and a scientific half. You're talking about it scientifically and relating one or two things very vaguely to your beliefs. If you ask me the whole old testament is a load of bull both in literary form and in the messages it has. God kills more people than Satan, and we must follow him after he proclaims free will to us, under pain of death. It's a tool, really, to keep people in fear of what might happen if they don't follow. It dumbs us down, as a foundation of thr religion.

 

Uhhh, sure, OK, whatever.


get back to me when you've finished puberty.


...............why do I even bother..........

 

Or the beginning of you showing your love and trying to bring them to the truth.

Love for your parents you cannot help so helping, if you can, comes easy.

We always feel we owe even our bad parents something. It is quite natural.

It would be a shame if you cannot talk them out of their delusion but be patient and give it lots of time.

Regards
DL

 

No. Disappointed that genocide and murder does not phase you.

You are even less than I thought.

Regards
DL