Whoever reads this post..do me a favor..

Jesus DID say it is a NARROW ROAD and FEW find it.

 

Your logic is laughable and fails to address the point, but I expect no less from a brainwashed automaton.

Let me see if I can explain this in simple enough terms. So long as your imaginary friend is deemed omnipotent, whether or not we have freewill is moot, because fate would be a foregone conclusion. It would be like playing solitare when you already know the outcome - a total waste of time - and cruel to the cards to boot.

 

JDFU...have you ever considered the possibility that you actually haven't found it?

 

questioning the veracity of the rubber stamping on our foreheads is to remove the keystone of existence

 

If this god knows all aspects of the future and is in all ways omniscient, we are forced to conclude that determinism is at work. If determinism exists, then there is NO free will, and there is no other way to say it. Omniscience and Free Will are mutually exclusive.

So then, we are forced to conclude that in order for Free Will to exist, either god does not possess omniscience, or god simply doesn't exist. Both conclusions would allow for Free Will to hold. Pick whichever one makes you feel better: either the existence of an imperfect god, or no god at all.

While it is impossible to accurately determine whether a god exists, it is however very simple to show that it is impossible for an omniscient god and free will to co-exist.

 

According to what Jesus says... I have.

 

To God we are not a waste of time even though he knows the outcome(now my comp. is about to die)

 

Then you worship an immoral, demonic being whom derives pleasure from torturing the entities he has created.

 

Well, think about it for a second. God sent his son to Earth, had him die for our "sins", and then went on to proclaim that anyone that doesn't believe in will be damned.

"He who denies me shall be denied at the gates of heaven" or something to that effect.

God's kinda a prick, ya know?

 

God creates a perfect world, yet gives humans a choice (Your all about choice aren't you?) Humankind could not go one life without screwing up perfection. Therefore an evil cloud covered the world. Every human failed and kept falling short of perfection. The Hebrews were a great example of this. A prime example, was when all hope was gone for the Hebrews, God split the Red sea, and they fled their enemies. They rejoiced and praised God for awhile. But that joy only lasted a short while. The Hewbrews must have forgotten God and what He JUST did for them and they started to worship a FALSE idol (Idiots!... but I see the similar situations even today).

After a timeline of showing that people cannot EARN their way to heaven. God sent His Son of perfection. The one who would grasp all of our sin. Jesus was the NEW COVENENT... No longer did people have to do good works to get to heaven.

It is so easy-ACCEPT and FOLLOW... ACCEPT and FOLLOW... ACCEPT and FOLLOW JESUS. I can tell you and the rest of the world a million times, but it will never go through. They have no faith in what is unseen and ultimately they have no belief that the Bible IS the true word of God.

God made it so simple it is satan behind the eyes of the non-believers that have made it so complex.


"The god of this age(the devil) has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
-II Corinthians 4:4

 

Good job clearing up "misconceptions" about "christianity."


Why don't you shut up and stop destroying the faith?



I am sick and tired of fundamentalists preaching insanity and ignorance.



Reason is a pillar of belief, and if you ignore logic your sect of the faith will cease to exist. History tells us this.

God is bigger than you, bigger than fundamentalism, and bigger than your warped ideas about christ.

You're turning people off to christ. You're doing it one forum at a time, rather than one person at a time as your signature says.

 

First, I am sorry about coming off as a jerk. Often people will be very sarcastic to me and it is very hard for me to resist sarcasm back. I am sorry if I have gone that route with you.

However, what I have stated, there is nothing warped about it. The scriptures are clear. Yet, things that I and others say seem foreign because most people have never actual took the time to read and study the Bible.

Take Care

 

^A guy who preaches the word of the western God while sporting a lovely Buddhist signature...

 

I already explained eariler that if an all-powerful god exists (a god with omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresense), free will doesn't exist. The two are mutually exclusive. There is no "choice" or free will for humans like you said, unless of course this god is imperfect and not all-powerful. If that is the case, then yes, we would possess free will. However, that is impossible for the Christian god, since the Christian god is supposidly perfect in all ways.

See how absurd the whole thing is?

 

Being all-powerful is not the same thing as "only-powerful". God gave HUMANS the power of free will, and this is the one rule he created which he would never break. He must respect this rule of free will because without it, we are not human, but robots. And without humans, god would not have any kind of mirror to hold to himself; he would never be able to fully express himself.


"Evil" exists and god does not stop it, not because he doesn't have the power to stop it, but because if he did use that power and all of a sudden everything was perfect, he would be violating the one rule this universe exists under, and then where would we be? Respecting his own rule of free will by not intervening with "evil" in the world does not make god any less good--first of all, this implies that all suffering is instantly "bad". The worst times in your life also tend to be the best, when you look at how educational bad experiences can be. Would you really want to go through life never having a single bad thing happen to you? It would get rather boring, and without darkness there would be no stars.

It is possible to be all-powerful and all-good, though it can admittedly be hard to understand when you don't understand how the universe works (and I'm not saying I do either).

 

So, are you saying that by allowing humans to possess free will, God has willingly removed his omniscient qualities? Because if so, God willingly became imperfect, and an imperfect God goes against the all-powerful nature of the Christian God...

Unless of course, you're willing to admit that the Christian god is imperfect. There's nothing logically wrong with that. Free will is preserved, and the only difference is that the god you worship is imperfect.

 

I don't see how allowing human's to have free will makes god imperfect. We're the one's who make the less-than-perfect choices, not god. And whether you believe in the christian god or not, I don't see how god being perfect is so irrational. To claim that a HUMAN is infallibale (cough, cough...Catholics, cough, cough) would seem rediculous. But god isn't human, and therefore he is above human standards, reason, and logic (that's why you'll never be able to prove god exists using science or logic...but that's a whole other thread).

 

Hmm, how should I explain this...

Ok, the Christian God is defined as being omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. In other words, all powerful (can do anything), all seeing (knows everything past, present, future), and omnipresent (exists everywhere).

If God allows humans to possess free will, that also means that he cannot be omniscient. This is because if God could know the future, what he would know as future events would be required to come to pass. In other words, God would know what I would have for breakfast tomorrow. Therefore, what God foresaw WOULD come to pass. I would be bound to eat what God foresaw me eating, hence, I would have no free will...

Well, that's a rather rough explanation of the determinism and free will argument, but I think it works fairly well.

And no, we'll never be able to prove absolutely the existence of God (or anything for that matter) using empirical evidence, since our senses are inherently flawed. We cannot be absolutely certain about anything other than the fact that we cannot be absolutely certain about anything. Ah, but that's a different argument for a different day

 

you know what you sound like? a fucking mindless robot, seriously

and the bible isnt the word of god, its the interpretation of god, through man

the only person who seems to have their head screwed on is silverwolf and hes totally right about free will and omniscience

you cannot have both free will and claim your god is omniscient, its one or the other

 

Haha, oh, well, I don't believe in predetermination, so no wonder we were confused by the other I think god has a general plan for the future, but on a universal basis, not on the what-you're-eating-for-breakfast-tomorrow basis.