Why are you Atheist Agnsotic?

i agree with stoner bill. i find things like like nuclear physics, quantam physics, etc to be sort of like decoding the world around us. The fact that we merely interpret photons as beams of light from the sun into a projected reality is something that I beleive is because of "god", not mere chance or randomness in the universe. I would call myself a Theistic Agnostic, but with all my beliefs and other ideas that aren't related I'm sure I have yet to find a better definition.

 

No Knowing that you know nothing. At least you are knowing something. Its a simple parable. Of course not knowing is not knowing. Its just re-wording it.
from a negative into a positive. Very very simple concept. Don't mess with it again. However, most gnostics didn't even abide by this. Instead they viewed initiatory rites, and secret word of mouth doctrines to be their "in the know" knowledge.

Fine you reject it.

The demiurge is not a conspiracy. Its a belief that the creator of our world, had travelled so far from the initial source (The big bang).

That it thought it alone was supreme in the universe, and with this distance it gained power enough to create a galaxy, solar system, planet etc. Whichever each individual cult were to beleive.

No the fight or flight dualism is a reflection on the natural state of chaos in the wild. Have you ever seen a pack of hyenas fight off a groud of lioness? Over a wildabeast, then the male lion comes out and sleys a few hyenas. Theres a video on the internet here if youd like to see it.http://www.compfused.com/directlink/524/
Simple viewing of nature, and the human condition in times of panic, and fear. Is what has driven them to this conclusion of the natural state of nature being one that is chaotic and violent.

They offer a path to liberation, just like all religions. Material obviously is violent, and survival of the fittest. Yet humans have the capability to be peacefull symbiotic creatures. This is where the idea of a dropping out of the "game" of everyday life. Which is the same game of the wild, only applied to a civilized battlefield.

No they beleive only some people deserve to be liberated. They beleive there are some humans who are carnal, who have a lack of care for spiritual things, and they aren't any worse than anyone else. They just have no chance of being liberated while being alive. Whereas at death you are either liberated, or reincarnated. Material is evil, if you substitue evil with violent and chaotic like I said before, and spiritual is the opposite. Its a very positive outlookm except when taken to far like the Cathar sect. Where suicide was the highest form of ritual respect, and liberation.

Did Jesus Christ project his irrational fear? He died to show he had no fear.

He was the biggest "great liberator" that was a gnostic.
Gnostics don't fear anything except fear itself.

That which holds a gnostic back is anything that were to show death as a punishment. Life is a blessing of course, but not entirely. They embraced this fact. Yet this really is not what the gnosis is about.

You don't understand the basic tenenats of gnosticism dude.

It is not objective at all.

It is 100% subjective. It is about initation. It is about reformatting your mind and brain, and destroying your ego. Through the resurrection process outlined in the Christian holiday Easter, and is also referred to as alchemy of Spirit. Its just about dissolving an ego, and replacing it with a system that works, down to every bio-function in your brain.

Ego death and resurrection of a higher something. The same thing you feel when something weird happens to you. Or you take trips, sometimes people nead near death experiences to trigger it. Sometimes people experience it after they've seen some awesome luck. Fishing for instance.

No way is the gnosis objective. It must be FELT. ITS YOUR GNOSIS. THATS THE POINT. KNOWING THAT YOU KNOW, and ADMITTING IT TO YOURSELF HAS A DIFFERENT EFFECT THAN THE NEGATIVE.

Its like clicking on a switch, on a biological level. Saying I know, and having a feeling to back it up. Thats gained through intiation, works for the human mind. Its what was that hole that opened up after the garden of Eden.

Nah the demiurge, being the king of fear gives it an obvious embodiment. If you do not fear the demiurge. Then you have nothing to be scared of. So you are eliminiting fear itself, in renouncing the demiurge.

It stems back to the death-fear. The demiurge being the embodiment of the dictator of this life, automatically destroys the fear of the death on a deep level in the brain. Therefore eliminiting fear as well.

So then what is a controllable pattern of behavior?

The gnosis is subjective. They claim it is the same things Shaman, Yogis, and monks all find.

 

Believe as you want or as you are told. The true secrets reveal themselves to very few. Scientific proof of god(s) or lack there of, isn't going to happen. As a side note, Deep Thought has calculated the probability as 0.

 

What are you talking about. 0 what?

 

Zero percent chance.

If this were math, you might say "Zero radians" lol.

... That sounds like a name for a cool alien race ... the Zeroradians. Zomg.

 

Probability of god existing, 0%, as calculated by Deep Thought.

 

the probability of one or more gods existing and the probability of one or more gods not existing are exactly the same. the probability of whatever gods exist if they do, resembling what anyone thinks they know about it is perhapse, if such a thing be possible, even less then that.

i really don't see any more natural requirement for anything, gods included to not exist, then there is for anything, even ourselves, to do so. likewise again, not to beat it into the ground or anything, but each different possibility we have considered has about a one in infinty chance of being right and all of them togather has a that many to infinity likely hood of any of them being right, which is kind of slim odds.

so the odds are totaly even as to wheter or not something that resmbles a god or even zillions of them might exist, but virtualy nill that anyone has the slightest idea what the're talking about when it comes to describing one.

but if you go out there where you're away from all the distractions and coersions and preassumptions of human society, you still migt just get the feeling there is something out there. you know, i mean some people might even stell feel that they don't. but unless and untill you do that, how can you ever know that what you feel either way isn't just because other people have told you what they feel, whether it is along the same lines or an alergic reaction to it.

=^^=
.../\...

 

I was stating a fact. Truth, a pun, a work of fiction combined to spell it out.

Believe it if you need or leave if you dare.

God is a dream and not a very good one. Higher vistas await those who climb.

 

What if god is only the power of energy and light?

What scale are you basing this "deep thought" crap on


allmighty chump. thats all there is to say about God.

 

The power of energy and light is not god by how most christians(and most other organized religions) define it. Things are what they are. Light is light, energy is energy. If you continue to change definition of words to fit you thoughts, it is not a clear way to communicate to others what you mean. god is just an attempt of a personfied description of something people don't understand.

Deep thought is just that, a deep thought. It also a planet sized computer built by pandimensional, hyper-intelligent race of aliens, in the "Life, the Universe and Everything", thus a pun, playing on both meanings.

There is no point is arguing, I could prove it but it would take me years to show you and I have better things to do.

 

Then there is, indeed, something greater than God. =)

(Light and energy aren't the only things constituting the universe.)

 

Man is his own unique animal, possessing the ability to be whole and fearless even in a violent environment.

When man does not surrender to his effeminate fears, man is free to evolve patterns of behavior reflecting a wholistic rather than dualistic reality.

The fear ubiquitous in our civilized reality is not fear driven by an extra-terrestial demiurge, but men surrendering to their fears when driven by an extra-ordinary cataclysmic climate shift ten thousand years ago.

And that pattern has since grown to cover the Earth.

Surrender to our fears, and we lose control of our behavior to the reactionary monkey-mind of our fears.

Behavior of the reactionary mind is trapped in mental patterns of constantly shifting inbalances of mental (psycho)-energy.

Fearless in our environment, we are free to behave in the natural spontaneous perfection of the moment.

I can tell you haven't run into many shaman, yogis or monks, or you would not be so impressed with these seekers of gnosis.

These are the guys who feel their lack of fearless spontaneous freedom the most!!

Seekers may seek to grasp freedom, but find that freedom will always escape their grasp.

A great yogi once discovered this in his sleep.

Upon awaking, he ceased seeking, and became the Buddha instead.

Every once in a great while, some fearless being, beyond seeking and grasping, will be found, and many will lable the fearless-one, a shaman, a yogi, or a monk, but that's rare.

No one becomes a fearless-one by becoming a shaman, yogi, or monk, rather the rare fearless-one is naturally seen as a shaman, yogi, or monk, by others.

Jesus of Nazereth, once we strip away the miraculous propoganda normal in that day, becomes another seeker who appears to understand, at least in his head anyway, the child-like spontaneous nature of perfection.

Yet, Jesus can say that, 'Heaven is within, and to get there we must be born again as a child.'

But can he walk his talk??

Like Jesus, I can spend forty days within the wilderness and become a gnostic shaman, yogi, or monk.

Or I can stop seeking and grasping, and allow wilderness to be within me.

The wilderness is me!!

But that's not us!

It's to late for us raised in anal-retentive hierarchal civilization.

We're civilized, alienated, and the best we'll ever achieve is perhaps a few fleeting moments in our entire lives free of the grasping anal-retentiveness of fear.

So by all means go gnostic seeking.

After all, at least the shaman, yogis, and monks, have their initiations, rituals, and ceremonies, so we can choreograph a soothing, comforting simulation at least.

 

Exactly my point. They are major contributers to MAN. All that matters in a debate whats worth worship. Who gives a shit about the creation of the universe beyond our solar system?

Light and energy have a direct impact on LIFE. Which is all the Christian god is good for, creating life (in his myth).

Who cares what else makes up the universe beyond our solar system, and maybe even galaxy.

Withouht light plants would die, thus affecting the entire food chain up to us. Agreed? No debate really.

Energy is what is transferred when we maow on food. Just like every animal, and plants obviously photosynthesize this energy.

I never said I beleive the Christian "G"od. Was all that I said, I only want to beleive this.

Its just the fact the whole monotheism train exploded with Judaism, whos history is pre-dated by Akhenaten's Atenism.

What is beyond energy though? (asking, not trying to prove a point)
It can't be moving at all, it can't even be a gas.

I know theres tons of dark matter with less than .001% light in it.

But I'm wondering about whats beyond energy?

 

You ever seen anyone use this? No they panic and snap into animal mode or crack.

Fear Is what evolutionists say drove man to unite and build weapons, and strategize I thought? M6m I'd like to see sources where you are pasting these socio-psychological ideas from. It makes sense I know, that man has the "ability" but why then do we not have it now?

Theres a difference between being whole and fearless, In my opinion than just snapping as I refer to it. If you mean the same thing then I understand.

Dude there is night and day, there is male and female. There is a dualistic reality as much as a wholistic reality. The wholistic just claims to rise above the obvious. Your speaking of the gnosis right here dude. Saying when man does not surrender to his effeminate fears, he is free. This is what the GNOSIS IS SAYING.

Plus not even all cults revered the Demi-urge has a living ET.

Most just referred to it as fear manifested for a dumb person to be able to understand.

Yea your always speaking of that cataclysmic climate shift. Yet I was debating with The Dauer, about this.

He said man wasn't even "one" at this time.
Therefore, I say how could all of man be affected by this climate change? And grow to be the same Virus copying lord of dominion, inside its own brain. Not even from outside surroundings forcing it in.

So if man was not all togethor one, inside one climate zone, then how could this affect all of man on a deeply imbedded level? If some humans never even came in contact with this climate shift in their region.
Or in contact with any humans that had.
So how could it be ubiquitous?

I answered about the demi-urge in the last section. Most just thought of it as an embodiment of the natural state of nature. Which is Violent and chaotic but can appear organized at some times, which you didn't address either. Outside of humanity, look at how animals interact.

The demi-urge also doesn't drive the fear. The demi-urge is only symbolic of the fear. The demi-urge thought it was doing the right thing because it was so far from its original source through creational emanations.

Its just about realizing that this world is violent, and mean.
When it comes down to it, it is. Aside from your friends and family, what can you really count on? A gnostic does not surrender to his fear. A gnostic accepts death before fear.

Yea but what if you overcome your fear through tricking your brain into thinking a demi-urge created you in this world to be rad and shit, but he kinda sucked at being an architect of creation so basically were just rotting away waiting to die, and maybe get some money! Have some money ! to pass on and wealth! Wow rad! When you die that money dies! To yourself anyway.

So now the gnostic, has no fear of death, if he knows life mostly sucks because even the good times and good things are temoprary. Which even the Buddha admitted. Therefore he loses grip with that fear thats holding him down.

So do you mean we did surrender to our fears and this caused the rapid acceleration in the past 10,000 years?

Thats real sciencey brah! I'd like a link or something maybe. What are the shifting inbalances of mental (psycho)-energy. I understand what the mental energy is but what are the shifting inbalances? The going back and forth from our reactionary mind to our modern mind.
Also you gotta remember this a public forum, and not everyone is Captain Schooling, and studied psychology, and socio-psych or whatever it is your drawing these mind-emotional explanations for everything from.

A perfect definition of the gnostic experience if I ever heard one.

Everyone keeps addressing only the demi-urge WHICH WASN'T EVEN CENTRAL TO THE GNOSTIC DOCTRINE. THE INITIATION WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT, THE EXPERIENCING OF THE DIVINE GNOSIS SUBJECTIVELY FOR YOURSELF.

Then admitting that you "know" something, because you do. Theres no way anyone can break it apart from you. The Gnosis, is feeling the spontanous perfection of the moment, and downloading it from the source like internet streaming video.

No I haven't run into many. What do you mean run into them? I haven't travelled to Tibet or India. Ive never met any monks, who has? Who has met an actual monk living in a monastery outside the United States?

Whatever the case, I can see your just encouraging people that seeking a higher state of being is bullshit. Thats bullshit. Your keeping people in their reactionary monkey minds, thinking that way.
What about that monk that lit himself on fire? That seems pretty fearless. Seeing as death is the only thing to really be afraid of.

Yea freedom escapes your grasp. Every moment it comes and goes.
You even just said it. "Fearless in our environment, we are free to behave in the natural spontaneous perfection of the moment."

Moments come and go home E.

Therefore freedom comes and goes, even when you hold on to it.
At least some recognize it unlike you.

Kid Im not saying Im totally free or some shit. Im just saying its better to encourage people to embrace raising your-self.

Even though you did just prove another gnostic ideal
of the Spiritual person, that has no need to seek a gnostic initation and no matter what is freed from this fear.

Whereas the soulish, can be thru a gnostic path of initation.

and the carnal can never be, and don't give a shit.

A perfect example of the powers of initation and break down and resurrection.
Central to the gnosis.

1.Walk his walk. If your going to bring scripture into it
2.No you can't not with that attitude. Your turning the gnosis into a science experiment. You can't just go out there with a desired result. Then the experiment only becomes half true.
3.Ok so thats really the endpoint of the whole gnostic experience, to a degree. Thats the POINT 90% OF HUMANITY CANNOT DO THAT. THEY CANNOT JUST ADMIT THAT WILDERNESS IS INSIDE THEM. This is why they must be broken down and resurrected, through initiation over and over until they realize sometime along those lines.

1. yes its not us! It could be though.
2. No its not too late. Everyone can be broken down, and their paradigm destroyed. From then on is the hard part. Rebuilding on someone thats had such a shattering breakthrough, that was so imbedded inside their paradigm in the first place.
3. Yea still this is not US. US however is madeup of individuals. If every individual experiences this. Then it becomes us.

Yep. very true. Thats all many of us need however.

Gnosis seeking. Everybody seeks for knowledge, even if its not this spiritual freedom kind. Why don't you just forget all that psycho babble you just threw up on me. Remember you went seeking for that knowledge somewhere DINT CHA!

Theres no difference, you seek for your freudian explanations. Ill seek for gnosis.

 

How about physics? Completely "matterless" and non-physical, yet it exists in all areas simultaneously, providing relationships and governing interaction between matter and energy.

But what is beyond physics?

Can there BE anything beyond physics?

 

quantum physics.

 

And beyond that?

 

By chain-reaction.

A small group of Caucazoids living south of the Caucasus Mountains found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

They found themselves in the Middle East when its moist fertile wooded grasslands were devastated and turned into barren deserts by the last great retreat of the ice-glaciers ten-thousand years ago.

Death-fear stalked this devastated environment and motivated this little group of Caucazoids to react to their local situation with a behavioral adaptation that became the Neolithic Revolution.

This Neolithic Revolution is what archeologists call the origins of civilization, and its behavior is characterized by neurotic, anal-retentive, latent homo-sexual impulses.

Impulses that manifest themselves most clearly in the development of agriculture to support a neurotic methodical organization of violence.

This localized methodical organization of violence is what caused the chain-reaction that spread in a classic domino-effect across the entire Eurasian land mass and Africa.

No neighbor would be safe unless they protected themselves by adopting the same neurotic behavior.

You either adopted this new civilized behavior, or you were wiped-out.

We can see this illustrated quite clearly when civilized man of the Old World invaded the New World.

Indeed, this once local behavioral adaptation has, as of the last century, spread its anal-retentive neurosis across the entire Earth.

Exactly, this is the fear-driven neurotic anal-preoccupations that launched the Neolithic Revolution that we call the origins of civilization.

All of our thoughts, feelings, emotions, dreams, motivations and impulses, are like everything else in the universe, a form of energy, (psycho-energy).

And like all energy, our psycho-energy follows all of the dynamic laws of physics.

Thus psycho-energy, like all energy, is constantly in motion seeking its own equilibrium.

The more our survival and reproduction is threatened, the more difficult it is to maintain a balanced wholistic reality, and the easier it is to fall into a fear-driven neurotic dualistic reality.

Dualistic realilty means we become neurotically preoccupied with dualistic opposites, and become blind to the whole of reality.

Growing up in intimate contact with the spiritual movement since the '60s, I've had the opportunity to live with many shaman, yogis, monks, and many of the disciples of the great gurus of this world.

None of them are truly capable of walking their talk, and they would be a total waste of time if it were not for the fact that Mainstream 9to5ers are even more clueless.

So, since we're all 'bozos on this bus', I prefer sitting with the spiritual crowd regardless of all our comical pretentious shortcomings.

 

Yea blame whitey for everything.

I'd beleive it, it just funny it falls in line with the Aryan mythos as well. Kinda funny I'd say. Hitler wasn't all that off then? So your suggesting ethnocentricity within the Sumerian culture. Which would also make sense, seeing as their statues have them with white skin and blue eyes. Or are you saying that this caucazoid neurosis and forced supremacy and conversion spanned all the way to India? As another Aryan myth would state. The Aryan invasion of India does not seem that far off if the ethnocentrized group of whites, that went insane starting changing everyone.
So would you then go as far as saying the Chinese religion and emporer worship may have been the closest thing to the first organized religion and government seeing as it went almost unchanged for 5000 years? If this neurosis spread the entire continent.

True dat. But The Meso-americans had civilization.
True it wasn't as anal-retentive as the Old world dominators.

Do you think its at all possible that those caucazoids developed an inherent sickness? Due to this climate change, and all this is actually a real biological change that caused them to think this way? Considering the white conquerors killed the Americans and Africans with diseases as well? What if this cataclysm then evolved these early humans so far they became viruses?
Call it Matrixy, but its true. We consume till a resource is gone, then move on.

 

Despite all my misgivings, there is a significance of beauty in every experience that both ritual and ceremony can bring into sharper focus.


Our cognitive skills allow us to mentally recognize with an enhanced significance the patterns of ritual and ceremony.

Thus underscoring and enhancing the beauty and significance of each experience.

However, if the rituals and ceremonies are coerced through social conformity, or separated from real and personal experience, then a life-long alienation and negative sublimated association will grow between the experiece and the recognition.

And since coersion and conformity are the norm in hierarchical civilization, I am suspicous that every ritual and ceremony used by civilized man, including gnosticism, will trigger not a beautified but an alienated responce.

Humor aside, let's always remember that it was only a coincidence, and, if there is to be blame, it should be placed squarely upon the cataclysmic environmental stimuli.

Still however, once fear exposes male sexual inadequacy, sexual identity becomes threatened and triggers a greater dependence on racial identity as a crutch in order to compensate for a sexually inadequate identity.

Moreover, it is also a distict possibility that, while gazing up into the faces that surround us from birth, we may become predisposed towards certain emotional states caused by intimate facial color through the well known emotional power of color.

However, it would only be speculation to suggest that pale ghostly complexions surrounding us from birth would predispose us towards alienation from nature or life in general.

Or, that complexion could predispose us towards sublimated anal-spinchter stimulation when gripped by fear.

In either case, the gnosis of such seekers is suspect, and should be taken with a grain of salt.