Why Atheism Is A Religion

I think every avenue should be explored, no stone left unturned. I don't think we've fully explored what belief can do to a person, for good or for ill, and why. If for ill, then it may be no more than a stress test for human beings, so that we can better understand our strengths and our exploits.

There is also always the possibility that belief will engender experience of God. God doesn't reveal itself to everyone. So my thinking is that it might be more likely that God will reveal itself to a believer than a non-believer, a believer being someone who is truly curious about God's existence.

Though the power of God might be so mind-boggling that God doesn't reveal itself to people because he doesn't want to kill them. But who knows? I just think belief is a worthy endeavor. Or if "belief" is too strong a word, then at least a desire to do what is right, such that one does not discount the possibility that what is right might have something to do with God. I certainly don't think that there should be a universal mandate to ignore God, to classify God as something unworthy of human interest.

It seems that some people don't want us to even have the ability to conceptualize God's existence. Because the concept of God has the same functional impact as if God does exist. But what would be the consequences if we eliminated the ability to conceptualize this thing?

I don't see how we're supposed to be able to have the mental capacity to conceptualize God but expect everyone not to believe in the thing they have conceptualized.

 

And you would know that how?

 

I can only think we're having a misunderstanding here... If God revealed itself to everyone, wouldn't we all believe it existed?

The only alternative I can think of is that God is the pantheist God, and technically reveals itself to everyone through nature, though not everyone believes in it.

 

I get spirituality, just don't get the deity thing. Why does there have to be a deity?

Something to pray to, make shrines for, create rituals around, the all seeing and judging eye...

 

Come to think of it, I don't really get it either. When I think of God, I think of the sanctity of love and goodness. God just embodies this. I don't think of God as a really enlightened being that desires our faith and devotion. I feel like love is alive and intelligent somehow, but I don't think it's separate from us. It doesn't have to be worshiped or deified any more than we do.

 

Non-golf-ist must also be a religion then. I'm also a raging non-pez dispenser non-collector. I'm a non-snake charmer too, and a non-SUV owner, and a non-pilot, and a non-Bieber fan, and a non-Texan, and I'm NOT a member of any unions....

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!
I am so many RELIGIONS!

 

If god is love, why not call it love then? Why not talk about the importance of love and compassion in our lives? talking about some nebulous "god", as though merely choosing to assert that one believes in the existence of such an entity would somehow positively affect morals (data shows that it negatively affects morals).

Oh, just realized i'm an atheist and i've expressed my opinion on a public forum in a thread about god and belief in god. I hope I haven't oppressed anyone! Sorry!

 

^
Don't be facetious Jeffrey

Have you never heard a theist talk about the importance of love and compassion? So seems like that is not really the issue. If God is love why not call it love then? Because they are different concepts and I think to most people also not exactly the same. Just because to many people god is love does not mean love is god makes the same amount of sense.
It's not a problem that (other) people believe in a deity or many gods for that matter. It is not a problem that people like you believe there is no God at all. When either one of these people is actively rallying against the other there is chance it becomes a problem just because of that. That's when atheists (not atheism on itself) become as dubious as you sarcasticly portray it (I guess because people have pointed out behaviour of you that seems slightly oppressive and you didn't take that well).
It is the exact same with theism (most often in organized form). There is no problem at all with it unless theists are gonna infringe on other peoples lifes because they think it's right. Now that doesn't suddenly make religion or theism as a whole nonsencial, just as a retard atheist doesn't make atheism this or that. As always, it is people and their actions. Not the ideas and beliefs on itself.
I don't believe you really hope you haven't oppressed anyone (even though you might just do it subconsciously, like you are right and they're wrong so the goal justify the means in your instance). Clear sarcasm A way to trivialize the criticism of others in the past when you bullied them into your chronic argument of divine evidence or accused them of being a coward... Pretty lame.

 

Higher Power...if ya believe there is one, ok...if ya don't, ok.

 

It's just a matter of preference. Some people meditate, some people chant to Ganesha. What is wrong with externalizing it?

 

You act like religious people never say "God is love" all the time...

 

Why does there have to be a deity for certain people? Well... because people believe in it/them It is that simple. Having faith is not always a choice.

If one does not get the deity thing that is entirely ok (well at least it can be). As long as you understand other people get the deity thing, and they are not idiots because you don't get it. Not saying you see them like this, theprodu (just to be sure) Just explaining how things become problematic

What would also become problematic is insisting atheism is a religion. I can see the use on it in a certain context, like it has been argued in the past in threads on here that secular ideologies do not differ from religions either when their followers gets over excited and impose their views on their fellow humans. It does not make the ideology a religion in the literal sense but still it is clear there can be striking similarities and the absurdities and atrocities projected on religious followers by certain atheists are not exclusive to religion and religious followers at all.

 

I'll tell you whats wrong with "religion". Some peoples "religion" is creeping into legislation, i.e. attempts to ban abortion, and it ain't people who meditate or worship ganesha.

If a person professes to having spiritual beliefs, I shrug.

If a person says they believe in a diety, I would say they lack objectivity And that is a trait that causes me distrust.


If a person calls themselves a christian, they are a weak minded fools at best and at worst a danger to individual freedoms and social progress , IMO

Let the dogpile begin...

 

You're right, it's not. The issue is when people say "I think there is a god", and when you ask them to explain why, they say "well look at love, love is god". I get confused with that, because most people do not think of love as god, or god as love. Love is a human emotion, a mode of transaction between people. "God" is a being. An entity. It makes as much sense to say that God is Love as to say that Mr.Writer is Love. Mr.Writer is a dude, not love. Love is great, but that doesn't make someone who loves, love. God is a word which means supernatural entity, creator of universe, etc. It's an entity; a being. People who redefine god to mean "love" or "quantum uncertainty" or "the totality of beauty" are playing a deceptively dangerous language game.

I know, I know. Your entire point of view is that it doesn't matter what anyone believes, it doesn't matter what anyone uses to arrive at knowledge, as long as nobody steps on anybody's toes. You know, you've been stepping on my toes for a long time Asmo. You continually target my posts and trivialize my criticism of others as simply being rude behavior that has no philosophical merit. I'm feeling personally offended that you cannot tolerate my love for truth, meaning, and human thought. I'd like you to please stop oppressing my ability to express myself when it comes to my opinions about the nature of reality. Thanks.

Do you think it's impossible to hold a ridiculous idea or belief? Honest question. In your mind, is there just no such thing? Like if your friend bob believed with all his heart that he was Elvis Priestly and when the moon turns full, he can fly. That belief is what, as worthy of respect as Euclid's Elements?

You think atheists don't understand the claims of theism? Studies show repeatedly that atheists understand the claims and arguments of theism better than theists do. And from understanding "the god thing" very well, they conclude it holds no merit. Many of them also conclude that it's worse than holding no merit, it's patently absurd and harmful. They can back that opinion up with all kinds of facts and arguments. Who are you to silence this conversation which has been ongoing since antiquity? Who are you to draw a line in the discourse of others and say "Whatever you do, you must respect this belief X, otherwise you are immoral". I don't need to respect any belief, and I don't need to respect the intellectual capacity of any person who demonstrates through holding that belief that they are deeply mistaken about the world. I also don't expect them to respect my opinions, nor respect me as a person for not accepting Jesus Christ / Allah and his messenger Mohamman / Jehova / Zeus.

You are a one trick pony and your entire contribution to these discussions is "Guyyyyyyyyys stop fightingggggg . . . . can't we all just pretend that our beliefs are precious snowflakes that don't really matter and have no real effect on our behaviours, lives, and world?"

Your aversion to harsh discourse and real ideological conflict does not serve anything other than to keep you safe and snug in your comfort zone.

 

Why argue with stupid insults? Anyone who calls themselves a christian is a weak minded fool at best.... Well that's your extremist opinion, or can we say fundamental belief?

:cheers2:

I at least hope your convictions serve you well. But they are just as accepting, progressive and sensible as those of a closeminded religious person you like to put down so much I hope for those people their convictions may serve them well too btw

It's wrong when people infringe on other people's lifes, but this is not exclusive to religion or religious folks. A lot of religious people here in the netherlands accept they can not decide this for other people. They may never get an abortion themselves, which is also perfectly fine. The point with people who already have a problem with the belief in a deity is that they inevitably connect this to other convictions and then conclude it is 'all because of their religion'. This is where they go wrong. Trying to take the right to get abortion from other people: wrong. Not all religious people by far want to do that, thus why conclude their religion or belief in a deity is therefor wrong? That seems not right on itself

 

Oh I just love putting down religious people, I love it so much, its like a fucking wet dream!

 

I applaud your honesty And it is an art I can appreciate sometimes myself as well (mostly in musical form). I don't see the point in a thread when people are sincerely expressing their beliefs. I may have been guilty of it myself too though (an astrology thread comes to mind). We're all human :-D I just don't like it when it is done consistently and ruins every thread where people might wanted to share their beliefs (for convo's sake mind you, because they were asked in the OP, not evangelistic purposes) but get pushed in the same old corner of 'proof or be ridiculed'.

I'm out of time to proper react to your post but these parts are ridicilous. Just felt like pointing that out right away. I will pay you the respect of a more in depth response later (yeah i know i promised that before and didn't got to it happily we have the same goddamn discussion every time right ). I do not dismiss all your philosophical thoughts just because you are also rude. Very dubious to say, or (lets hope that's it) you completely misunderstand me. I just point out chronically when you try the same trick yourself time and again. I can understand btw how annoying that may be to you, but that is not my main goal Do you also acknowledge how repetitive you sound? That you almost always focus on the same thing even when the thread or previous post you are reacting to were about another matter. That you (and me reacting to it, i agree) tend to turn every religious/spiritual discussion in the same debate again and again. So you must also realize that you are equally annoying a lot of people just like I am annoying you.

My comfort zone has really nothing to do with what I am continually saying to you. Me supposedly not tolerating your love of truth, meaning and human thought is really too preposterous for me to take seriously at this time. Maybe I can see where you are coming from with that later I think you are either attributing some things on me falsely there though, or (I see no other option) are really confusing things. Like my motivation to keep reacting to you.

 

Actually Writer, maybe you should back something up first:

This accusation in particular doesn't sit well with me. In fact it tends to make me loose the little respect I have for you. Simply because I have a hard time figuring out how you can mean that seriously... Maybe give a couple of examples where and how i am doing this? It should be the most easy to debunk (as I know for certain it is not true at all. In fact from my POV it even makes your remark about your own love for truth kind of bogus). I look forward to your explanations.
I recall I went several times out of my way to say that besides our disagreement on theistic beliefs and religion in general we are remarkebly close in our mindsets and convictions in other threads about other topics. It was more apparent before our disagreement on this particular topic began to overshadowing it but I for one occasionally still notice it.

Be aware that everyone in topics like these who comes into debate with someone with opposite views tends to feel like their words are twisted often. I see it mentioned by Meagain on top of this page, I see this frustration expressed by everyone who feels their point is deliberately misinterpreted. Maybe the fact it happens so often implies that we might be too stuck in our own perspective. You know, the ole 'the innkeeper trusts his guests as he is himself'?

 

I'm cool with that. I believe in love, not God. Even though I think love is the greatest, most powerful thing there is. That's the only reason I think it's synonymous with God. And when I say God is love, it is just a simple way of making the point that there is nothing more important. But I can see how it might be disturbing to some to hear "God is love" whilst believers simultaneously define God as one who passes judgment.

If there is a highly intelligent being that created us all, does it even believe in God? Because how does it know it wasn't designed by the real God to believe it is God?

 

So you believe that I wish to oppress people? Is this along the vein of when Chinacat says that I'm a dictator and want everyone to think exactly like me?

What exactly am I being repetitive about? I have many conversations with many different people. Often I ask simple questions to different people to get them to think critically about the claims they are making. I'm sorry that this isn't a different conversation every single time, but then you realize that the claims of theists are not different every single time either, are they.

My examples of you not respecting my love of truth is how your consistent replies to my posts amount to "I see that you have an opinion, but unfortunately you aren't being as polite as I would like you to be when presenting it, therefore it would be nice if you kept your opinion to yourself, as that would be better for everyone".

It seems perfectly fine for someone to come here and write "I believe that god exists because when I go to church I get goosebumps" but when an atheist says "I dont think goosebumps are proof of anything" then that is rude in your books and should not be said.

You are hilarious. "I have never said things to imply that your character is lesser! In fact, to say such a thing to me, only proves to me that your character is lesser!"

Take a look at some of the replies in this thread directed towards atheists and tell me with a straight face that we don't face exactly the kind of harsh treatment that you are berating me for ocassionally dishing out. On these forums it seems perfectly legitimate to say that if you don't believe that the universe was created by a supernatural being, then you are morally bankrupt, philosophically lost, and existentially wasted.