why cant a perfect system be rationally deduced?

I actually do have the perfect system, I've been theorizing it and working out the kinks for over 10 years, and I think I'm ready to put it down on "paper".

Life

Life itself is the perfect system. All deriving from the smallest units of 0's and 1's, atoms and molecules in perfect harmony with one another. It allows human mind to redefine itself in every moment based on it's knowledge, and adapt based on the evolution of what we are NOW.

Maybe one day Communism will be the sole truth, and we will all do our jobs based on the sole fact of joy and allowing others to self actualize. Maybe we just haven't evolved to that point in our understanding yet. Or maybe there is some other system out there, we just haven't evolved to that point in understanding yet.

Considering our level of understanding in the world we have evolved a system to meet that. We still use words like buy/sell/stocks/corporations/surplus/profit/rent/lease/own. Hence within our paradigm of understanding, we have a system that works.

What if we became a society with 10 different words for love/sharing/joy/friendship. What would that say about our evolution?

 

Who in this day and age uses the term deduced? Smacks of Sherlock Holmes.

 

How can life be perfect if:
We all die.
Mutation.
Disease.
Mental illness.
Human reaction to toxic substances.
Evolution

I deduce that life is not a perfect system and is in not in perfect harmony with pretty much most other things.

 

I concur with your view, but wish to state that I do not view it as a perfect answer.

 

Are we quite sure that's all there is? Or is that all we understand or pretend to understand at this point in our evolution? I don't think mother nature works off 0 and 1s, computers do, but mother nature I think operates outside that plane. I think she has tricks up her sleeve we can never truly understand, numbers and symbols we can't even visualize or comprehend. She's not interested in our petty financial games.

 

I concur also, it is not a perfect answer.
So, perhaps ten years has not been wasted.

 

i have a pedantic side

so mock me

if it will make you feel better

 

1: We are not omnipotent.
2: What we imagine to be perfection is often a distortion of reality. It is physically possible for people to always be nice and never commit crime, but that's not going to happen, is it. Even if you genetically modified people to be docile eventually some tyrant would take control and abuse people's docility.

 

a perfect political system governs all in it's governance fairly and equally.

a fair economic system cares for all fairly and equally.

the problem is, not all people need to be governed the same

and not all people need the same care.

that's where the first of your problems crop up

it goes down hill steeply from there.

 

i was thinking about something like this the other day as a foolproof method to solve the world's current economic problems. my conclusion: there's just too many variables to be able to build a model to scientifically calculate what would work. it's all pretty much trial and error.

 

To put it quite simply, a perfect system cannot be deduced because anything that is perfect is complete within itself, never changes, and is non-conditional (combustion isn't a perfect reaction, energy exchange is never at 100%). As humans we are always subject to change, and therefore any system which we develop must be able to always cooperate with "Who We Are Now" and "Where We Want To Go". That is the nature of Life, Evolution.

Life (from the grandest philosophical sense) is absolutely perfect. You have to understand the point of life first. If you think it's some Darwinian race for survival, with no purpose but to live and reproduce, of course you will see life that way. Moralistically though we are far from perfect.

All life/evolution is is about redefining yourself at every moment. Knowing who you are, who you want to be, and are you getting there. A lock had no purpose until the first time somebody stole. That is evolution. When we had surplus crops and had to decide what to do with them we had to think of an economic system. That is evolution.

In an ancient society where somebody polluted the water, they could of killed the person. But maybe the polluter's defense was "If your immune system was strong enough, it wouldn't be a problem". Depending on which philosophy they went with decides the course of history. Maybe we have so many diseases because we eat such an unbalanced diet (not what our ancestors adapted to). More evolution.

"Death" isnt' something that's intrinsically bad. Things have to shed their physical shells so other things can live. Nothing truly dies, only changes form. Everything is life.

Diseases have their purpose in life too, although I definately don't wanna catch Ebola anytime soon. Sure as humans we would love to eradicate every ailment/disease/parasite on the planet, but then you have consider..... Population booms could have potentially catastrophic effects on the planet. I'm not saying that eradicating disease would be a bad thing, it's just that we haven't evolved enough scientifically/spiritually to even consider that option right now.

We enslave hundreds of millions of animals to feed humans, but we consider that okay. When we kill a virus it is going against it's programmed instinct to live. When we get sick with parasites they scream "hurrah!". We allow one person to own millions of acre of land, just because it makes sense within our economic system. (I know these may seem like extreme examples).

None of these things are bad or good. They are simply the products of the system we humankind has developed to allow ourselves to realize Who We Want To Be. And sure, it's SUUPER primitive (considering we can send people to the moon, but haven't found a way to take care of basic human needs). But that's okay, because that is evolution.

But I say, all this is perfection. A monk may need one grain of rice a day and have his perfect system. I personally need to be a geopolitics major to start to grasp a sense of what would lead me to perfection.

It's not understanding these simple truths which has led to so much conflict in the world. Your consciousness is what causes life to be heaven or hell. A baby cries when he doesn't get a candy bar because That is his world, his source of happiness. You can get super pissed when you drop a $10 bill. Life is foremost about your individual consciousness, and if you choose, creating a way for everyone else to realize who they want to be.

But as you start to see the perfection of life in every interaction in life, your consciousness will slowly move toward perfection. Because knowing the one single truth that explains everything in life instills peace, joy, divine love. Your consciousness will merge with Life/God itself, instead of being forced an unconscious actor in the Grand Cosmic Play.

 

Who the hell are you to determine that an answer is not acceptable?

I ask that because in my opinion any accurate answer boils down to the apparent human drive to exploit a system to his or her own advantage. Perhaps "Because humans are imperfect" is too general an answer and "Because humans are inherently selfish" is a touch better?

There is nothing out there that can possibly ensure that an apparently fail-safe set of rules won't be creatively misinterpreted or outright sidestepped in order to enrich a few elite at the expense of the many... or to enslave.

 

I am someone who enjoys reading well thought out responses written by people that can admit they might be incorrect.

in all fairness, what more can i ask of someone?

i am not concerned with "answers", i am concerned with reasons. that is, the basis or motive for an action, and i see no "apparent human drive to exploit a system to his or her own advantage" nor an "inherently selfish" evident in anything that is not conditional.....the fail safe is called consciousness.

you could have just asked why i thought it was unacceptable.

 

Ask and don't demand.
Interesting that you appear to be splitting hairs... answers versus reasons here... very open to creative interpretation depending on whether you choose to agree with someone or to use sophisticated word choice to basically tell them you think they are stupid and narrow minded- and for the record, I'm quite open to the possibility that I'm incorrect.- in the right environment I will learn far more from confronting errors in my own perceptions... but I digress.

I stand by my answer though I would concur that "because humans are imperfect" is too simplistic a response and might challenge those who would give that answer to justify it instead of a blanket "unacceptable" judgment because in doing so you tend to cast your own opinion to be above reproach

The perfect system would intuitively anticipate the need of each individual affected by it. I suspect it would be impossible to create such a system. Ideally a political or economic construct would eliminate conflicts by not only ensuring that there is plenty for everyone but also making sure each has access to his or her fair share (resources, money, freedom, access to political power, etc) My experience and observation suggests that the human spirit thrives in an environment of conflict and as I watch the modern parallel to Rome burning I'm mindful of the apparent emphasis on fairness and suing any entity that has inflicted the slightest inequity... in an apparent zeal to create "Nerf World" our political and economic culture has precipitated an environment where freedom is squelched for fear that the freedom of one will infringe on the freedom of another- whether that freedom be of speech, economic pursuits, happiness, or whatever.

The ideal system would acknowledge its imperfection and that there's room for improvement... much like this response. I fully anticipate that you will harbor some degree of difference with it and that does not bother me. Ensuring resource and political parity in the "perfect" system runs contrary to human nature where some folks, beyond valuing their own individuality have a drive to appear superior to other folks- perfect parity would leave them unhappy... not exactly a perfect system for everyone -eh? It's a bit analogous to someone initiating a debate less for the purpose of exchanging ideas and more for demonstrating how much smarter they are than everyone else... this motivation is made evident by condescending word choice with those who dare differ with them or call into question their style of "debate".

I feel that the ideal system would be a dynamic entity that would account for the changing needs of those subject to it... and how would the dynamics be defined? By people of course. Apart from separating people egos and selfish motives from their decision making you'll never have a chance at the "perfect system-- do you suppose that those in charge submit to lobotomies before assuming positions of influence? I wouldn't call you crazy (or stupid) if you did!

 

We are the BORG!


Resistance is futile!

 

why do i like your idea about me more than my own....

 

I don't know- perhaps my work is done here then...

 

hey guise, let's use logic to solve all our problems

 

A "perfect system" would necessarily delete the idea of "human".

Humans naturally have a negative idea of the concept "human".

Imagine the idea of "GOD". Although it is an idea that is described differently with many different perspectives, the concept holds one true characteristic. It is NOT HUMAN.

Even philosophies that incorporate our coexistance and oneness with GOD still seperates the two.

Now, seperating any spiritual issues, because this is not a spiritual post, humans can never accept any system they believe to be self delivered. This is why so many cultures rely on "religion" to do so. And why they hold these ideals so dear.

But why cant these ideals merge to create an overall, self discovered, and selfless outline for society that leads to neither gain nor loss? Because curiosity and boredom.

I pray for nothingness, because nothingness is peace. But many can not fathom this...

 

^^People need to realize that worshiping sky wizards and tree spirits is a farce and not a model system to govern themselves.

Secular humanism is everyone's cup of tea. As long as we connect with the earth again and the find dignity with ourselves to be human beings again and celebrate our humanity can we begin to break down the barriers of spiritual falsehoods and hogwash.