Why Doesn't The Left Get More Credit?

Gilligan

You really should look around you with an open mind rather than with your prejudices.

I mean look at you statement

The left according to you is made up of “the young, the old, minorities, and liberals”. But you can be young and a right winger, old and a right winger or black, Hispanic or Asian and a right winger. As to being ‘liberal’ what do you mean by it how would you define it? A dictionary definitions seem to be rather favourable.

“Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.”

Are you saying that most right wingers are the opposite of this that they are for instance bigoted, authoritarian, close minded and intolerant?

When you do describe right wingers it isn’t any better you say they are “working people, mostly christian” so what are you saying that you think all left wingers are lazy unemployed Satanists?

Come on Gill think before you post.

 

<joke impending> it's because real lefties areto busy keeping the oil men from cutting down trees to vote <there we are then>

the left got hugely factionalized by the horrendous strategies of the candidates during the prelection, for the love of god, the man advising dean had never won an election and made the exact same error as he did last time he was in a race, he was expecting to face gore until much later in the game than he should have been (yes in 2004)


kerry wasn't a great candidate and bush was solidifying his base who went out and grabbed the undecided's (I know I tensed that out wrong)

pretty much bush won because dean lost

dean lost because he was saddled with someone who was less than compotent to lead his campaign

 

Gill

My point is that you are thinking about ‘who’ is meant to be left or right wing not the real question of why.

I mean you see US politics and say that white working people mostly support the right wing.

Now as many people here have pointed out the US has one right wing political party with two branches, the Republicans and Democrats. In most of Europe and according to some in Canada as well both those parties would be seen as right wing and as far as the Republicans are concerned further right than the present main right wing parties of those countries.

So from a European perspective a large majority of people who are white working people supports parties that in American terms would be seen as left wing. As to Christian in the UK many church leaders have in the past being very critical of the values that were promoted by the major right wing party especially Margaret Thatcher.

In the US there was once a strong socialist movement as their was in Europe, but it had to battle against the wealthy interests that were opposed to it, in Europe it survived and grew in the US it didn’t fair as well. For example the socialist presidential candidate Eugene Debs who was thrown in jail for talk out against WW. Also after WW2 many parts of Europe had elected socialist governments while in the US there was the un-American commissions and McCarthyism. During those time woe betide the educator, radio host or company employee that stepped out of line and talked favourably of left wing ideas, and those forces that promoted those feelings toward left wing ideas are continuing that trend by attacking ‘liberal’ ideas.

Ok so my point is that you seem to be thinking in terms of the prejudices of where you are. That being right wing is voting Republican and being left wing is voting Democrat. That to be in any way liberal is to be a left winger, when we should be celebrating that we live in liberal democracies and the liberal thinking that brought them about. By your, probably subconscious, viewpoint that associates the ‘decent’, in your terms (working and Christian), with the right.

 

Gill

i have more liberal social views and more right wing economic views,

That could be your confusion, I mean just having what you see as ‘liberal’ views on social matters does not necessarily make you left wing.

Can you explain what you mean by ‘liberal social views’?

 

That's just bullshit. You claim Communists are funded by "the central banks". Well, let me tell you something: That is an old Nazi myth.

The story goes something like this: While Trotsky was living in exile during WWI, he frequented the mansions of Jewish bankers in New York, and they decided to fund the Russian Revolution so as to spread Jewish dominance over the world. The evidence used to support this is that many of the Bolshevik leaders were Jews, and that Trotsky could not have defeated 14 nations with a ragtag army built from scratch--he had to have help from the World Zionist Conspiracy Bank, which supposedly funded and armed the Red forces.

It was baseless in the heyday of anti-Semitism and it is still baseless.

 

Yeah, I guess it's only baseless when it goes against what you believe.

 

Skip - maybe you're the real bigot, since you're actually ignorant enough to criticise people based soley on the country they're from. At least it would seem that way based on your stereotypical attacks on Americans.

Nobody here is anti-Semitic, especially me. Exposing the truth behind world events is not anti-Semitic.

 

Prescott Bush was merely a goafer for the bankers, working on behalf of them. He wasn't at the very top, the Rothschilds and their minions were.

You need to understand how the hierarchy works, and how it all works from the top down. The entire Bush family, as with most politicians, are merely puppets put in power to serve an agenda. (And not that of the people.)

I am sorry, but I don't agree with you at all. We'll just have to learn to disagree. I don't believe it was coincidence. Nor do I believe that 9/11 was a coincidence where inexperienced "terrorist" pilots flew hundreds of miles by sight alone, to crash into buildings with precision, undetered. I also don't believe that it's a coincidence bin Laden was - IS - a CIA asset and operative, but you probably do.

Everything is a coincidence. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

I disagree with "Capitalism" as it exists today, which is not true Capitalism at all. I am also smart enough to know that a consolidation of wealth (hence, power) in the hands of an elite few is nothing more than Communism, whether that's what you want to call it or not. Today, what we see is more along the lines of a mixture between Communism and Capitalism, which some people call Super-Capitalism. The conslidation of wealth and power isn't, nor has ever been Capitalism. I am staunchly against the crony Capitalism we see today, but that doesn't mean I am going to join the US Communist Party, naively believing it's a solution to Capitalism, which is the typical knee-jerk reaction those who see things only in black and white often have.

 

So tell me about the government's role in a communist government, Skip. Who is in charge in a communist government, to see that the order is maintained?

Can you also tell me why Communism is responsible for the deaths of so many people if it's this utopian, anti-capitalist dream of peace and equality you say it is?

Since you have all the answers, I am sure you can enlighten me.

 

As outlined in the Communist Manifesto:

1. Expropriation of land and application of income derived from land for State expenditures.

2. Heavy, progressive taxation.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of lending in the hands of the State through a national bank with State capital and exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of all means of (49) transport in the hands of the State.

7. Proliferation of nationalized manufacturing, instruments of production, land clearing and improvement of all land holdings according to a common plan.

8. Equal mandatory employment for all, construction of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. The consolidation of agriculture and industry, evolution towards gradual elimination of the distinction between city and rurality.

10. Public and publicly funded education of all children. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Unification of education with material production etc.


Sounds like government fascism to me. It also doesn't sound too far off from what is going on in the US, Canada and Europe right now (ie: high taxes, confiscation of private property, imprisonment of dissenting voices, etc.).

Sorry, I want freedom. Not tryanny. I don't want big government telling me how to live my life.

 

I respect your opinions, Skip, even if we don't always agree on things. That's what makes these forums interesting. The same Left/Right arguments get old after a while.

Also, you're now saying that Communism - like global capitalism - seeks to monopolize power and control. But before you were telling me that Communism is NOT about the monopolization of wealth and power. (According to what you said before, that only occurs in an Oligarchy.) Which do you believe?

 

Who was behind the revolution?
Once again, it seems we have a person who, for reasons I cannot comprehend, refuses to acknowledge the blatant existence of an extreme zionist movement (many in The Elite not necessarly "Jews"), much like your extreme islam movement("al quida") and even extreme christianity (identity).
I will say again I am not anti-semetic; you people who are stuck in racial issues, and not accepting all life as a whole, are living in bizarro world. I love all beings, and it is apparent in my writings.

Give me a fucking break, you douche!
You just became the beast you set out to destroy.
Retard.
Peace.