why i am agnostic...

Oh I see

 

You devote your time in trying to persuade people that God does not exist. Why do you do this? You base your common sense, logic and reasoning around something which you don't even believe in. It's a waste. All the answers lie within, you just need to realise this.

I apologise if it's hard to understand what i'm saying. It's very hard to articulate the things that I know, I've come to understand who I really am but there is still a long way for me to go.

 

Now you're making sense

 

Oh, you mean The Force!

 

Vampires are also a concept. When people let a concept get to the point that it dictates their lives, then it becomes excessive. Case in point are religious extremists - christian or muslim (especially muslim now). There is of couse also a lot of good that is done in the name of religion for this god concept as well. But why do we need to do good in the name of god? Why can't we do these good deeds in the name of humanity? Humanity is more than a concept. It is real.

No, you're going a bit far. There is plenty of knowledge that is based on observable and/or testable evidence, as well as knowledge that is derivable from observable and/or testable evidence. The concept of god does not fit this criteria.

No, we had reason to believe we could. We knew man could survive in earth orbit. It is not a leap of faith to think that additional rocket thrust could take us to the moon, that the pressurized vehicles could continue to protect the crew on the moon as it could in earth orbit, etc etc... Everything required to get us to the moon was an extension or improvement of available technologies, and directed towards the purpose of getting us to the moon.

This, and your other examples show that you're confusing 'faith' with 'hypothesis'. A hypothesis is something that is intended to be tested. Faith is a belief you have that you really have no interest in testing, and people even hold onto faith in the face of evidence to the contrary.

 

2 MrStiffy. You may call it The Force, Something, God, anyhow. The idea is that we're too narrow-minded by nature to understand what God is. We can only think of the concepts we're familiar with, so God becomes almost human, he's of male sex, he's old & bearded or smth like that. We ascribe to God such qualities as jealousy (I'm your only God! & so on), anger and other HUMAN qualities. The tzar sitting on the clouds... This belief really lacks in reason & logic. We are afraid of Hell and it makes us pray & behave like good people & not because we're good ourselves. But that's more important.

 

It's not just these images of God that we conjur up that lacks in reason & logic. It's the idea of any kind of god that lacks in reason & logic.

 

^We can prove neither God's existance nor nonexistance. Better to say "I don't know" because it is the only true. We believe in this or that but we don't know it exactly. That's what we call agnosticism.

 

Why do some people salivate at the thought that there are things we don't know and will never know? They will even go so far as to minimize or ignore what we do know. They hold on to that element of mystery to justify any and all fantasies they feel they must hold on to. Mystery is fine in stories, but to willingly go through life like this is purposefully deluding yourself.

Yes, it is true that there is no evidence one way or another for god. But take a fresh approach on the subject. Put aside centuries of myths passed down from generation to generation. Put aside our species childhood stage of imagining spirits and boogeymen. Look at it from the perspective of the 21st century now that we have made leaps of knowledge and understanding, and have begun to take charge of our own destiny. We can now better see our place in the universe.

What do we know? We know that naturalistic explanations have brought us out of the dark ages and placed us where we are today. We know that our species has evolved along with the other animals. We know the earth is 4.5 billion years old and we have occupied it for only the last few 10s of thousands of years. We know (or at least have a good framework of understanding) how life has evolved to the forms we see today. We know how the universe has evolved from the big bang 13.7 billion years ago up until the galaxies and planets that are around today. We have medical technology and have lengthened our life spans. There is a lot we still do not know, but history has shown that given enough time and resources, those gaps in our understanding will eventually be filled.

Without getting caught up in all the hocus pocus of our past delusions, if I were brought up today in an environment that did not mention god, I would see no reason to conclude that there is even a possibility of a god. If I heard about it only later in life, there would be no compelling reason to classify it above the other fairy tales and myths like leprechauns, unicorns and dragons. Something that you cannot necessarily disprove, but not worth much thought other than for entertainment.

 

You're assumming that all believers don't test their faith; but that isn't true because I test my faith constantly. I have yet to find any evidence to the contrary to my beliefs, only confirmation.

I can turn that around and say that you refuse to test your faith as well; It's useless to say this, and only sounds patronizing, even thought that may not be your intention to do so.

Again, your views of proper testing are different than mine. You believe that the way you test is superior to the way I test.

Taken from another thread:

"Statements are being made when one doesn't have belief.

Lack in belief states that certain claims are false. The belief is believed to be false, so a
lack of belief sets in, thus a conclusion is made between true or false. These conclusions of
true and false are arrived at by viewing the evidence. The connection of a thing or things
can be gathered as evidence, but what is considered as connected is decided by the claimer.
Evidence is a claim made by the subject, and thus subjective. If more than one can be
convinced by the original claimers claim, including being arrived separately, then the belief
in the claim can then widen. Belief is the mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust
or confidence in another, or a mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality,
or validity of something. All beliefs are derived at in two ways: From the self and from
others, thus all truths are arrived at by SELVES; A self is a single individual. Faith is a
confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. A lack
of belief in God or gods is faith driven.

All beliefs are leaps of faith.

Choose which faith that you would like to leap with."

You possess faith; you have faith in the 'scientific method' (as if there is only one way to derive truth) and so do I . You will most likely claim that you don't. Such a claim that logic is backed by faith would seem ridiculous to you, I know this. Logic is an idea created thousands of years ago... we're followers of ancient philosophers, and more specifically: ancient people, and even more specifically: ideas created by people.

Believing in God doesn't suddenly prevent one from understanding complex concepts. Believing in God doesn't mean you automatically throw out 'evidence'. We have 'evidence' that Milk is good for you, yet we have 'evidence' to contradicts the former claim. I would consider myself a very critical and conceptual thinker. (I mention this because I feel obligated to defend my intelligence... many atheists use the argument that since you're a believer in God then you must be unintelligent or ignorant).

Evidence, to me, exists in lifes content and context, as well as all forms of natural philosophy, and all disiplines that seek truth.

 

to def zeppelin:

- i think The less the leap is... the more likely it is to be more consistent with reality. (why don't you understand that?)

- if there are differences in views of testing then lets discuss/compare that. what exactly are your methods of testing def zeppelin ?

- since when does every human being tell the truth. infact since when does every human being have the same view. i think this discussion proves exactly that it is not that way.

-yeah "Evidence to you". this is the problem. i think your "evidence" is contradictory.

-furthermore your signature:
it also provides further evidence to how confused you are. if your opinion is that something can not be proven and only falsified then what are you doing trying to prove your beliefs? if you don't mind, why don't you explain the difference between the meaning of actuality and reality? i personally see no difference.

you are contradicting yourself.

Greetings Earthling,
venom_zx

 

No they don't...

Agnosticism is the easy way out, i use to be agnostic, i didn't want to 'offend' anyone with my beliefs or scare them. But fuck that i'm proud to be Atheist. Agnosticism is the most logical choice because it can't be proven either way but i'm sure there's no God and no one will change my mind but me.

 

if it was not logic then are you saying that you let others decide what you believe?
i think you got it backwards. isn't this the easy way out? you closed your eyes and ears.

 

Only I decide what i believe based on what i desire and value. Taking a stance isn't an easier way out then being neutral. It's not necessairly a harder decision i'll add, it's a decision i've made for myself. My eyes are wide open to reality and i can hear with an open mind.

 

Reefer Rogue

There is a contradiction in this sentence (between logic and you're confidence)

The bold part of the first quote contradicts the second quote.

 

I arrived at my destination with an open mind. Now i have eliminated other possibilities for my philosophy, perhaps my mind is more narrow, but it's my mind and i'll decide how narrow i want it. I will decide for myself what i want to believe in, i always have the choice to change my beliefs and transcend myself to what i am not now. At this present time i am happy with the beliefs i hold and i feel no necessary need to alter them. At this moment i feel i could happily believe as i do for the rest of my life. I have previously been open minded in regards to God, but not anymore, i choose to believe god does not exist.

 

I'm not an atheist or an agnostic, I'm a an acrostic; it's all a puzzle to me.

 

this does not explain why you claimed that no one can change your mind and directly afterwards claimed to have an open mind

 

I have an open mind, i don't care what you think, you are not me or my mind. If there was overwhelming evidence or proof of god then i would accept it and change my mind, myself. No one is going to change my opinion except me. I can openly listen to everyone's views but that doesn't mean i'll agree with them. No one can change my mind at this time, i can't predict the future.

 

cool.
i probably misunderstood you then