Why I am not an Atheist.

Do you think the Persian Gulf War was about religion? Really??? With the backing of Muslim countries, we were protecting one Muslim country from another over oil and geopolitics. Does the fact that the United States has a Christian majority automatically make our armed forces "Christian soldiers"? I don't think so.

If this quotation is authentic (you provide no citation), it shows what everyone knew already--that Hitler cynically manipulated religious rhetoric when it suited him to do so. Most of his key advisors were pagaan.[/QUOTE]

 

people seem to be getting offended simply because the topic of this thread isn't in agreement with being an atheist.

I think what is important to remember, that this thread is not an attack on atheists, and is not even meant to be ABOUT atheists themselves, but rather, atheism as a world view.

 

Yup, they were pagan, not to mention how Hitler was being drugged up by the people around him... They were pretty much controlling him... It had more to do with greed than religious belief.

Fueling a puppet with heroin is going to produce some nasty results.

What Hitler spoke about, and what he did, completely contradict the message behind Christianity.

Hitler failed to understand the message.

 

Unlike the many posts by atheists on the Christian forum attacking Christians in very personal terms.

 

There really is an influx of mean replies made by atheists on the Christian forums. When I say mean, I mean that the arguments has nothing to do with the debate but due to releasing anger that is wrongly directed.

They (I mean the atheists in the Christian/religious forums attacking rudely, not all atheists) present a lot of anger and meanness and never really debate anything.

This isn't saying that being an atheist leads you to extremist like comments; It doesn't . But for what I have seen, it can. Which proves that any extreme belief, no matter what it is, can bring about violence (Pol Pot, Stalin, etc, etc).

"Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.
Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. "

Extremes can make any belief evil/violent/crazy. Any belief can bring about extremes.

Atheism/Agnostic/Theist/ et al... doesn't matter. Have an extreme belief, and watch your life crumble in front of you.

 

so, just one incredibly arbitrary reply?

*sigh*

I dont understand why it's so hard to prove to others that your worldview is rational and contigent.

come on.

 

"Extremes can make any belief evil/violent/crazy. Any belief can bring about extremes."

I agree with that completely.
I have seen some really good responses here,interesting you have ignored them all neodude.

I will add that I have never trolled the christian board here and attacked their beleif(and never would)
,and not all atheist/agnostics do that.
Just as not all christians come to this board and attack our beliefs/or lack of beleifs.

I find both to be incredibly hateful.

I still don't think you have any points worth debating because that are all rooted in ignorance and misinformation.

..but then, my opinion doesn't count cause i am not the sort of atheist you were looking for.

 

I don't mind having my beliefs attacked, if it is done by means of reasoned arguments instead of invective. In fact, I welcome that, because that's how I learn.

 

It doesn't matter if Hitler was a puppet, or drugged, or pagan or Christian.
What matters is the simple fact that a nation of religious people believed, no, had FAITH in him. Enough faith to execute the genocide of millions.

Merry Xmas from Nazi Pagan Christian Religious Racist Genocidal Germany!



And what is the grand message of Christianity again?
Oh yeah, We're all sinners and Jesus died so we could sin!

Convenient motto I'm sure.

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BTW, For America's role in the Gulf War, New York city got a new sky line.
Sculpted by Allah himself channeled through his faithful martyrs.

 

I'd say the grand message is peace, understanding, and unconditional, nonjudgmental love for all people.
-

 

Trying to prove that your worldview is rational and contingent is a lot easier when you talk to people that agree with you.

 

But why is it that many of the more fundamentalist types (that I've encountered) are the opposite of that?

 

Good question. Long story. Fundamentalist types are conditioned to take the Bible literally, including not only the teachings and example of Jesus, but also the Old Testament, the epistles of Paul, and Revelations. It is a nineteenth and twentieth century reaction against modernism, and an effort to recapture the certainty of "OLD TIME REIGION. Paradoxically, that focuses their attention on a lot of non-fundamental things, like a Six Day creation, a young earth, rejection of evolution, acceptance of the admonitions of Leviticus and Paul against gays, a narrow view of the One Way to be saved, and an interpretation of Revelations as a prophecy of things that will happen in our own time instead of a prediction of what would happen in the author's time. The shift of emphasis from the teachings and example of Jesus to Paul's emphasis on personal salvation through sacrifice, atonement, and justification by faith alone seemed to require belief in improbable doctrines in place of good works. The transformation of the church from an informal network of home-based gatherings led by women to a Roman-style hierarchy dominated by men introduced a new set of institutional priorities. The Nicean Council marked the critical transformation from a radical countercultural movement against the domination system of the Roman Empire to becoming a part of that domination system, as the church fathers climbed into bed with the Roman Emperor.

 

Well that happens to be a two way street.

 

"We're all sinners and Jesus died so we could sin!"

No.

 

I reworded it but "Jesus died for YOUR sins" conveys the same message.

 

It basically means that all the sins you have commiteed and ever will commit have the potential to be forgiven.

 

neodude1212 : Christianity as a world view is both irrational and philosophically flimsy. I am shore you will find plenty of reasons for objecting. What are you going to do, refer to the bible and ask Jesus to walk on water or turn water into wine, again so as to reveal the truth of the existence of your deity to everyone. Well the burden of proof can only rest on miracules and the priceless gullability of the faithful herd.

I have seen Ad hominem arguments employed against atheists in the pasts by Christians so I would not choose to use the same tactic. I any case I do not know you from a "bar of soap", pardon the expression.

 

Saying that Christianity as a world view is irrational and philosophically flimsy without giving reason as to why doesn't prove anything, and it neglects to even mention anything.

Not to sound like an ass, but you aren't saying anything...

I don't understand what's so flimsy about the belief that both love and forgiveness can bring world peace - That's pretty much the message behind Christianity.

If you want to take a literal interpretation of the New Testament, then maybe you can consider that irrational and philosophically flimsy - MAYBE - but if you look at the Bible without taking it so seriously, and understand that much of it, if not all of it, is metaphor. Many people can't grasp metaphor and because of this, risks extreme interpretations from taking place.

"I bring you a sword that can be used to slay evil"

Literalist: OH MY, I NEED TO STAB EVIL PEOPLE TO DEATH!

Non-literal: Sword is symbolic to Jesus' message of love and forgiveness. Both love and forgiveness will dismantle 'evil'.

It's all very simple.

Even non-theist beliefs like Humanism understands the importance of love and forgiveness... I'd say that humanism was inspired by Christian principals, or, inspired internally, reaching as close to us as our genes.

My belief is that we were built with the purpose to carry out our lives with goodness. Why do people do bad things? Multiple reasons, but we always have the choice to choose which part of us to embrace. Without choice, we're robots. Now, that could lead to a discussion about free will, and frankly, that can't be prove or disproven either way. You can bring in a ton of research about identical twins living similar lives and what not. But in the end, it depends on how one interprets the data.

 

This thread is not about christianity in the slightest, nor is it about me trying to prove my faith is the correct one. It is about atheism. Other faiths have nothing to do with this discussion. Period.